CommanderFish wrote:Wait, there are actual Eva fans who deliberately decide not to watch EoE? Really? I... that's just... really? Why would someone do this?

Although the commoner view is that EoE and the DCs leading up to it are a fuller and more explicit expression of the same ending, there are those who interpret EoTV as leading to Shinji's acceptance of instrumentality as opposed to his acceptance of his previous self in the real world. These people see the additions as fundamentally overturning their understanding of the show rather than clarifying or adding to it. Discussion of the compatibility of the endings can be found by looking for the keyword "concurrency" (i.e., can the two endings be combined and remain consistent - note, you can find videos which splice together and interleave large parts of the last two episodes and EoE to demonstrate that they can).

@FreakyFilmFan4ever, thanks for the info on the OA vs DC stuff. I had no idea people felt so strongly about that, to the point where they would shoo off EoE. Though to be honest... I've only ever seen the Director's cut of NGE, so I can't say too much. I'll check out those threads if I get curious.
Also... while I can tentatively agree that the rebuilds deserve their own independent identity (mainly because of 3.0), I feel that comparison between the films and NGE is still necessary. But maybe that's not what you were arguing to begin with; I can't quite tell.

@pwhodges, I'm familiar with some of the ideas against "concurrency", but didn't GoatJesus basically disprove those within this video (sorry in advance if this has already been discussed)?

CommanderFish wrote:@pwhodges, I'm familiar with some of the ideas against "concurrency", but didn't GoatJesus basically disprove those within this video (sorry in advance if this has already been discussed)?

It continues to get discussed to death. Just because one person claims to have disproven something, doesn't mean everyone will be convinced. This is art, after all, and interpreation is to a large extent subjective.

^Fair enough. I'll head over to the concurrency threads if I ever feel I want to debate.

BlueBasilisk wrote:^There are also the storyboards from Peaceful Times, which show the children exploring the wastes of Tokyo-3 together just like UCYTM.
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That was from one of the early ideas, yeah. The FAR created Eva and was destroyed by it. The SAR sealed the Eva with the Lance and created the Angels as an Anti-Eva defense system to ensure the same thing didn't happen. I could see that happening in the movies.

Very cool. Thanks for linking the storyboard, I've never seen them before. It definitely seems like some of those were used in that short, though clearly not all, and it could be that those storyboards are what happens right after the end of 3.33 and the short was just a visual/cerebral unofficial link between the two.

Truth be told, who even knows if The movie is going to pick up from there or that time. Anno apparently had a ton of difficulties with the last movie, which is what has been causing this delay (along with Godzilla), so who knows if he is going to decide to scrap large portions of what was planned again!! From the sounds of it, very little of 4.0 has even been finalized.

I also didn't know that was an early concept for the FAR and Angels. It actually seems to be a more coherent concept than what we ended up getting in NGE TV. It's crazy how you can learn new stuff about Eva all the time, despite having shift through what one may have thought was every detail for several years.

Chainer3000 wrote:I also didn't know that was an early concept for the FAR and Angels. It actually seems to be a more coherent concept than what we ended up getting in NGE TV. It's crazy how you can learn new stuff about Eva all the time, despite having shift through what one may have thought was every detail for several years.

I've learned so much about Eva from this forum (and this thread, particularly) since I came here. It's amazing.

It took me some digging, but I found the thread with the information about the First and Second Ancestral Races and the Evas/Angels.

BlueBasilisk wrote:It took me some digging, but I found the thread with the information about the First and Second Ancestral Races and the Evas/Angels.

Awesome! Many thanks

You really have to accept NTE as something different to enjoy it. Also rewatch the movies (it's been studied that films are enjoyed more the second time).
Asuka may not be as complex anymore (well, let's wait foer what the inevitable Instrumentality in the last mivie reveals to us), but she is a secondary character in a series of four movies now. Also look at what she means despite that ("Why haven't you changed?" "It's the curse of Eva" As in Eva the show, people can't let go of this image they have created of Asuka, and she is cursed to be that in the minds of people, the "Curse of Eva" wouldn't have let her age in 3.0, we would have flipped our shit.)

I Had doubts like you about 3.0, now it's one of my favourite films.

I questiined Shinji's weird behaviour too. It clicked for me once I realized that Anno passed on using the interference of Angels as excuse to create abstract scenes, and decided to make the until now fairly realistic world of Eva itself abstract, weird and dreamlike. It's a different approach.

kuribo-04 wrote:"Why haven't you changed?" "It's the curse of Eva" As in Eva the show, people can't let go of this image they have created of Asuka, and she is cursed to be that in the minds of people, the "Curse of Eva" wouldn't have let her age in 3.0, we would have flipped our shit.

Huh, I never thought about that line in that way. If Anno actually did that on purpose, then that's some pretty great meta-commentary right there.

kuribo-04 wrote:I Had doubts like you about 3.0, now it's one of my favourite films.

Actually, I've come to like 3.0 quite a bit. It's my favorite of the existing Rebuild films, for sure.

kuribo-04 wrote:It clicked for me once I realized that Anno passed on using the interference of Angels as excuse to create abstract scenes, and decided to make the until now fairly realistic world of Eva itself abstract, weird and dreamlike. It's a different approach.

... and that's one of the precise reasons I liked it. The atmosphere is just superb.

CommanderFish wrote:Huh, I never thought about that line in that way. If Anno actually did that on purpose, then that's some pretty great meta-commentary right there.

Or, you know... That shows how Anno still thinks about his fans. That they will never let their 14 year old waifu grow up. That's his opinion on them and not necesserely valid. I've seen quite a lot of fics or arts that depicted children as adults or at least older. So fans actually have no real problem with them growing up, but Anno still accuses audience of that. It's actually his own bias that hasn't changed in that case.

Also if there wasn't a time skip, there wouldn't be that problem. But with time skip, we have adult Asuka, that still looks like a kid. Imagine if she looked her age of nearly 30 and still acted like a ball of anger towards 14 year old kid and kicked him in the end. It would look much more like child abuse. But when she looks Shinji's age? Anno can go with it, no problem.

Stillborn wrote:Or, you know... That shows how Anno still thinks about his fans. That they will never let their 14 year old waifu grow up. That's his opinion on them and not necesserely valid. I've seen quite a lot of fics or arts that depicted children as adults or at least older. So fans actually have no real problem with them growing up, but Anno still accuses audience of that. It's actually his own bias that hasn't changed in that case.

Well, I don't know about this. Anno does work in the anime industry, so you'd think he has a pretty good understanding of the fanbase--particularly his fanbase--and particularly his fanbase in Japan. I'd imagine the popular ideas are a bit different over there, although I certainly don't know for sure. Plus, I wouldn't say that a few fics featuring the Children grown-up is very... conclusive in backing up your claim.

Either way, Anno is still sending a message. Who cares if it doesn't necessarily apply to a few people? If it's relevant on a larger scale somewhere else, then it's relevant to put on film.

Stillborn wrote:But with time skip, we have adult Asuka, that still looks like a kid. Imagine if she looked her age of nearly 30 and still acted like a ball of anger towards 14 year old kid and kicked him in the end. It would look much more like child abuse. But when she looks Shinji's age? Anno can go with it, no problem.

This comment helped me think of another piece of evidence for my Rebuild theory.
Thank you kindly.

Stillborn wrote:Or, you know... That shows how Anno still thinks about his fans. (...) It's actually his own bias that hasn't changed in that case.

OR is it actually how (some) fans think Anno thinks about his fans? Whose bias are we REALLY talking about here?

Reichu wrote:OR is it actually how (some) fans think Anno thinks about his fans? Whose bias are we REALLY talking about here?

I dunno... I don't really need to make a series and a movie and more movies to make a point. I'm pretty straightforeward as well. Think about it what you will. You know my opinion.

I think that you think that we think that Anno thinks that we think that Anno thinks that Khara thinks that we think that Eva is important.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I think that you think that we think that Anno thinks that we think that Anno thinks that Khara thinks that we think that Eva is important.

pwhodges wrote:But is it really??

I think so.