Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Sachi » Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:46 pm

^2.22 is what brought Eva to TTGL territory. Don't forget GAR!Shinji. 3.33 is significantly less over the top with the action.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Shark Knight » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:32 am

View Original PostSachi wrote:^2.22 is what brought Eva to TTGL territory. Don't forget GAR!Shinji. 3.33 is significantly less over the top with the action.

But 3.33 just whent full steam ahead on it, and threw in blocky cgi in there to make things even more cringy.

I understand also that this last movie affected Hiddekki Annos health, yes?
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Reichu » Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:28 am

Believe it or not, there is a vast world of mecha spanning decades that both Eva and TTGL happen to draw upon. Whatever you think TTGL did first that NTE copy-catted is likely to involve a plethora of other works that mostly predate both. I might suggest more rigorous investigation before such reductive and insubstantial comparisons are undertaken.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Shark Knight » Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:17 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Believe it or not, there is a vast world of mecha spanning decades that both Eva and TTGL happen to draw upon. Whatever you think TTGL did first that NTE copy-catted is likely to involve a plethora of other works that mostly predate both. I might suggest more rigorous investigation before such reductive and insubstantial comparisons are undertaken.

you dont get it do you?
It doesnt matter, the point is that it jumped out of its text and tone into something like TTGL, regardless of it being original on such thing or not.

Yes TTGL was based on a bunch of mecha shows and IMO it went boring and uninteresting after Kamina died and completely lost interest when the time skip happened. Before that it used to be just fun and fun but they turned it into pretentious show that aged like milk.... gross.

Eva aged like wine in stasis thought but I am not sure the rebuilds will, specially with all the cringy cgi.
EOE worked becaue it looks like that CGI its serving a porpuse for that specific scene and its there because of style and substance rather than just to save budget or look modern. And besides it was the 90s so cgi was very rare.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:02 am

Neon Genesis has more than its fair share of downright garbage animation, recycles frames and sequences or straight out uses still frames to save on budget wherever it can get away with it. Even in The End of Evangelion, Unit 02 is notoriously off-model and changes multiple times within the same sequences. If Gainax had the budget and technology that Khara has now way back in 1995, NGE probably would look just like Rebuild does.

Having seen Gurren Lagann, I find this comparison completely ridiculous. Gurren Lagann was about taking the most downright stupid and silly thing they could think of and trying to make it awesome. Rebuild doesn't even begin to approach that level of patent absurdity. If anything it draws far more heavily from Diebuster, which Tsurumaki and Enokido also wrote/directed (and which predates Gurren Lagann by 4 years).

Here's the important thing to keep in mind: The Rebuilds are not trying to be Neon Genesis Evangelion. They are different stories with different goals in mind made decades apart by the same people. There's no reason to remain beholden to the animation principles of a 20 year old TV series that suffered from budget issues. The TV series could not do too many big action packed setpieces like the movies do because animating that kind of thing by hand is ludicrously expensive and time consuming to do, especially with the complex designs of the Evas. NGE is treated like a sacred cow that can never be altered or changed, but it's just a good TV show with tons of flaws like any other.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Shark Knight » Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:53 am

View Original PostBlueBasilisk wrote:Neon Genesis has more than its fair share of downright garbage animation, recycles frames and sequences or straight out uses still frames to save on budget wherever it can get away with it. Even in The End of Evangelion, Unit 02 is notoriously off-model and changes multiple times within the same sequences. If Gainax had the budget and technology that Khara has now way back in 1995, NGE probably would look just like Rebuild does.


You sound very apologetic. And it doesnt matter wether they are trying to be something different or not. They are basically re-telling the same story with a lot less flesh and blood to the point of it going to a completely different direction because Anno already admitted that he makes each one without thinking where the next one will go. Nedless to say every Eva movie and project takes a huge toll on his health.
And well yeah NGE its treated as such because when you are dealing with something that its basically its theatrical series version people have expectations.


You could argue that sometimes it recycles takes and such because of style rather than because of budget constraints. And also you are cherry picking a lot.
Studio Khara, having all of these resources should not need by any means fall into such blocky cgi animation. But then again are the rebuilds even directed by Anno? I believe they are only written by him, and so it would make sense why the style and detail is not the same as his previous works.

Rebuild goes to such silly levels at the end of 2.00 and goes full on them during 3.33. The wunder scene its just silly over the top to the pont of absurdity.
This is why people craps on rebuild, if you are oblivious of it then you have been living under a rock.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Reichu » Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:39 am

Shark Knight: Telling people that they're "oblivious" and "living under a rock" if they don't agree with you is not how we do things around here.

Anno is the supervising director for the films -- same as with the TV show. You don't think Anno directed each episode all by his lonesome, do you?

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Drabant » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:57 pm

I don't know about people, but I do for certain.

It's a deeply insincere work which only function is to cater, resulting in unrealistic premises, characters, and a plot that can't be called anything but minimal and idiotic.

It's the very first work in Evangelion I've seen that has such a concentrated purpose of undermining it's own characters and story, simply to focus on the aforementioned catering to character-otaku. If you rationally understand what it is, there should be no other emotion than hatred for it, unless you are dependent on the catering it provides, in which case - you'll defend it.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Reichu » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:00 pm

I have absolutely no problem with you expressing your opinion on the work itself, but I must ask that you refrain from further generalized deprecation of those who do not share your perspective.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby ____ » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:26 pm

I don't hate 3.33 at all. It just took a left turn from the story, but left gaping spaces that can easily be addressed in the next movie. Only real gripe I have is that Rei 2 (or 1?), the catalyst for this whole movie, is gone, and by the look of it she's going to be replaced, or new Rei is going to take the fall. Sad!
Callbacks to Nadia and all the shows Anno is a fan of are cool if maybe a bit on the nose. Beastmode Eva is lame but I get it and so it's cool.
Really looking forward to see what group dynamic forms between mentally 28 year old Asuka, mentally 14 Shinji, and the new Rei which seems like she doesn't have any prior attachments and is finding herself on her own which is potentially great.
Mari is kind of annoying but whatever, hopefully she has an arc of her own and doesn't meddle in theirs too much.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Drabant » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:35 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:I have absolutely no problem with you expressing your opinion on the work itself, but I must ask that you refrain from further generalized deprecation of those who do not share your perspective.


I get why you'd say that, but keep in mind that it is a core part of the polarizing nature of this question and unsurprisingly, the answer as well. The differences - also those of perspectives. Without naming them, aren't you essentially preventing us from reaching any conclusion?

I can't help but notice that your name shines a bright orange, so if you're intent on stifling discussion, and the question has been answered as far as can be, wouldn't the thread be a good candidate for locking?

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Reichu » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:35 pm

Drabant: Responding to a polite request with passive aggressive behavior is probably not the sort of thing you want to be doing again, either. (Please review the rules, as it seems to be in order.)

As I said, you are absolutely free to share and discuss your opinion. That's what the thread is here for. However, you must do this in such a way that you are not casually deprecating at least half of the people who could potentially contribute to the discussion. Whatever conversational goals you have, I am fairly certain they can be achieved without sacrificing basic civility.

Please PM me or another member of the staff if you have further concerns on this matter.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Drabant » Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:16 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Drabant: Responding to a polite request with passive aggressive behavior is probably not the sort of thing you want to be doing again, either. (Please review the rules, as it seems to be in order.)


Uh-huh. But I'm dead serious. The very thread's opening post starts by "deprecating" a large chunk, if not far more than half of the userbase, as you put it. Not only that, the tone of the thread continues to follow that very same pattern of criticizing perspectives and would-be holders of them, with you yourself joining in on the choir.

So if you are deciding that after 15 pages that suddenly enough is enough, then you might as well lock the thread just like I said. We aren't getting any further in answering the question if people hate 3.33 (a loaded question to begin with) without considering different perspectives.

So the question is now whether or not you'll try debating to defend your own perspective or swing around the mod-stick while continuing being hypocritical.

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^^ the latter was chosen **
[User received a 7-day ban for ^this edit]
Last edited by Drabant on Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:10 pm

View Original PostDrabant wrote:It's a deeply insincere work which only function is to cater, resulting in unrealistic premises, characters, and a plot that can't be called anything but minimal and idiotic.

I've run several tests using my "Sincerity Meter" on the film in question, and I'm unable to duplicate its supposed "insincere" nature. Further tests are needed.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby TheFriskyIan » Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:44 am

View Original Post____ wrote:Mari is kind of annoying but whatever, hopefully she has an arc of her own

Wishful thinking. Any development to her in the final movie is wasted screen time better spent on a broken Shinji.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby ChaddyManPrime » Sat Sep 03, 2016 3:03 am

I think Mari already has a decent origin story, there's no reason to go further with it.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby sephirotic » Sat Sep 03, 2016 10:31 am

Since this thread seem to be quite alive still, I'll also post here my opinion regarding the 3.33:

I always had low expectations for Rebuild, I always knew it was not going to be as good as the original series, thus didn't really get disappointed with 1.11 and 2.22. I had fun with those two films, even knowing they were pretty shallow and mostly action-focused, but I'm fine in having fun with shallow action-focused movies every so often, so that isn't really a problem. But it was always clear to me that Eva is much more than just action and the most important elements that makes me like Eva so much aren't present in the Rebuild. And I always make sure to state how the rebuilds are not bad but are vastly inferior to the original series.

But then came 3.33. And even with my low expectations it failed to even entertain me. To be honest, on the first couple of views I was still in doubt If I kinda liked the movie or not, if the action and storytelling was decent enough. I was sure it wasn't VERY GOOD, but maybe it wasn't really that bad despite the awful CGI and the questionable timeskip... or was it? But after rewatching it for the fourth time a couple of weeks later, havng time to digest all the mess, it became clear to me: The slow pacing in the middle and the dialogues between all the characters were simply unpalatable and the action scenes with the terrible CGI were also not fun at all, specially the ones involving the Wunder. The almost -4th impact climax scene were just a weird rehash mixture of 24' and EoE but far from epic, specially since it didn't move the story forward, it felt empty. The strangeness was not stimulating, it was just edgy, repeated and cheap. So it became clear to me that 3.33 was by far the worst movie of the Rebuild. Although the most original, it didn't do anything right. In terms of filmography it was okay, despite the awful CG, but the script and character development, which I personally consider the most important, weres just a mess. It will need a miracle on 4.0 to fix everything that went wrong with 3.0, I have no faith anymore that Anno will be able to do a good closure for the Rebuild. I bet all my chips that 4.0 will also be pretty disappointing.

So, no. I don't "hate" 3.33, I never did. That was a loaded and unhappy question by the way; assuming that 3.33 is even remotely good. You simply can't say objectively that 3.33 is good in terms of script. It's bad, 2 out of 5 stars, even if you remove all the expectation and the comparisons with the original series. It's not horrible, it's not "hate-worthy", but it's considerably bellow average.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:06 am

View Original Postsephirotic wrote:So, no. I don't "hate" 3.33, I never did. That was a loaded and unhappy question by the way; assuming that 3.33 is even remotely good. You simply can't say objectively that 3.33 is good in terms of script. It's bad, 2 out of 5 stars, even if you remove all the expectation and the comparisons with the original series. It's not horrible, it's not "hate-worthy", but it's considerably bellow average.

You're right. One can't objectively say that 3.33's script is good, because it's brilliant.

The way it fulfills all of the character build-up in Misato specifically is what makes Eva Q the small masterpiece that it is. Ha and Jo do a very good job in establishing a different kind of Misato than the one we saw in NGE. Eva Jo emphasizes her struggle to live vicariously through Shinji, even standing up to Gendo so that Shinji could do at his age what she couldn't do. Eva Ha reveals the conclusion that a relationship like that comes to, while also building a depicting her authentically penetrating Asuka's emotional barrier. In Eva Q, we see Misato divorcing herself from living vicariously through Shinji, and we see where that relationship with Asuka finally lead to.

NTE isn't that shallow of a film. On contrary, it's deeper in message and meaning than most other action movies in recent memory. Even James Cameron's thoughtful Terminator films can't compare to this, and Paul Verhoeven's Robocop didn't have quite the intricate commentary on the state of the human mind as Eva Jo alone had. I agree that isn't not the obvious dive into psychology that the last stretch of NGE was, but there's still smart scripting and filmmaking involved in these movies.

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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby sephirotic » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:01 pm

I strongly disagree.

But I don't think this thread is the right place to thoroughly analyse and dissect the script of 3.33 to build up detailed arguments of why it is bad. I'm quite wordy and that would take a lot of time and would derail the main point of this thread, so I'll have to back up my bold claim of 3.33 being "objectively bad" in other ocasion and just do some quick counter-points in this post.( Of course you can't really analyse literature 100% objectively but anyway...).
However, I must say that I don't find the Terminator's movies anything more than very entertaining flicks. Calling fruits of the entertainment industry brilliant already tells me a lot of which perspective you are taking in criticizing the rebuilds. Anyway, I know that arguing with someone that has such an opposing opinion to mine would led to a very long and tiresome exchange of messages where we won't really convince each others of the opposite, but I must say that Misato and Asuka character's in Kyu are nothing more than empty husks in service of the plot. Their changes in attitude are not convincing of a proper character construction at all, but just reflex of a need to set up a tone and keep the script in motion. In Ha it works, but there is NOTHING special about it. The change to Ha is just ridiculous; how everyone is mad at Shinji because he almost destroyed the world is just as surreal as it is exaggerated and unrealistic. The whole setting is absurd, Misato is completely and utterly empty in Ha, as a stereotyped "surly commandant that saw too much shit in "her" career". The fact that she hesitates in killing Shinji when he is taken away is nothing special to her character, would be the bare minimum if we were dealing with human beings and not robots. Asuka is completely one-dimensional as an ever-angry energetic character. Her usefulness on the plot is as significant as she is static with no development whatsoever. It really baffles me how can anyone say that any character changes besides Shinji's in 3.33 is good. 3.33 is completely Shinji-centric, all the other characters are dead and empty and they behaviors are completely shallow and puppet-like just to move the precarious plot forward. Shinji's reactions as a character is convincing giving the absurd setting of the movie and all the pressure he has to digest in such a small time. But that is not near enough to make the film good.
Last edited by sephirotic on Sat Sep 03, 2016 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Do people still hate Evangelion 3.33?

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Postby Sachi » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:32 pm

How can the film be "objectively bad" when there's clearly a huge divide among fans regarding it? Your opinion is valid, but don't pretend it's anything other than just that: an opinion. The nature of this conversation is subjective, and claiming to hold the objective truth is a cheap way of belittling the opposition, whose opinions are just as valid as your own.
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