How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby Sachi » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:46 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Shinji knows absolutely nothing about souls and would have zero reason to think the dead can be "saved". Had he somehow known this in advance, then perhaps you and NemZ would have a point.

I disagree that prior knowledge would have made a difference. He made an attempt, and his attempt had tangible results. What difference would his knowledge have made if the possibility is there regardless?
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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby Reichu » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:55 pm

Don't you mean "INtangible results"? :nyao: Rei's still as much of a ghost after the attempt as before. All that was accomplished was, as I said, moving her from one tomb to another. SO worth it!

Anyway, it makes a significant difference, IMO, with regard to how the scene is meant to be interpreted. But with all the sloppy writing and storyboarding -- not to mention continued absence of a concluding film that will make or break the whole enterprise -- that's standing in the way of meaningful interpretation, perhaps we'd be better off letting the thread return to its assigned topic sooner rather than later.
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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby Sachi » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:13 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:But with all the sloppy writing and storyboarding -- not to mention continued absence of a concluding film that will make or break the whole enterprise -- that's standing in the way of meaningful interpretation, perhaps we'd be better off letting the thread return to its assigned topic sooner rather than later.

When you put it that way, we should just stop talking about Rebuild altogether until the final movie comes out. :P

Anyways, for the record, I don't think Rei II is coming back. I'm with everybody else that believes that it would go against the meaning of "You Can (Not) Redo". Her role will probably be equivalent to Yui, which may play out similarly to how it did in EoE. Rei Q ought to get development toward having a more independent identity for herself in contrast with Rei II (perhaps symbolized by growing her hair out).
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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby NemZ » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:20 pm

How in the world Shinji came to the conclusion Rei was still in there, that whatever the hell ATF nonsense was accomplished there was even an option, and that combining the two actually could do the job is a gigantic mystery... but the fact remains it did at least partially work.

As for the original question, that depends on which Rei we're talking about, right? I assume ReiQ and Shinji will both be treated as prisoners and interrogated, but at some point get free and have to do something plot-relevant. I make no assumptions about the original Rei and Yui, because even Anno probably doesn't know yet just what the hell he's going to do with them.
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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby Reichu » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:21 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:When you put it that way, we should just stop talking about Rebuild altogether until the final movie comes out. :P

Remember when every thread in the bloody subforum eventually became some variation on the same Shinji discussion? I beseech you, let us please keep it a memory... :P
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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby pwhodges » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:26 am

Unlike the series, Rebuild currently has two forms of Rei existing simultaneously (Fuyutsuki makes it clear that Rei is currently in Unit-01 with Yui). So the question is whether these Reis are to continue as completely independent existences (and whether there will be any interaction with the Rei in Unit-01) or if in some way they will come together, merge, share experiences or whatever. Both possibilities have already been explored in fan fiction (cf Reticence and Afterwards...); but for the last film, the choice depends on how Shinji will learn from his experiences of each Rei in the past, what the crucial lesson will be this time, and what part Rei or the Reis have in getting this across to him - and that all depends on decisions of Anno's which we are not yet privy to.

As for discussions all coming back to Shinji - well, yes, I think it's pretty much agreed that Rebuild is more single-mindedly focused on him than the series was, so that's not really either a big surprise or inappropriate. And repetitive? Sure - it's a forum, and everyone wants to make a contribution even if it duplicates an earlier one. It's the way forums are, and rather what they exists for.
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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby BlueBasilisk » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:05 am

Mmmm...I think they've left the door open for her to return by having her absorbed into Unit 01 rather than killed outright and it seems like she might have to if Shinji is to use Unit 01 in the future. If she does, I think it needs to be her choice on her terms and not in a way that just reduces her to a prize for Shinji. He can still learn to accept the loss and his inability to do anything about it without writing her off completely. She's already been fished out of the body of two god-like aliens. What's one more?
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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby LightDragonman » Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:51 am

Heck, maybe the only way she can return is for Shinji to accept his loss. Like, it would make for a good counter to Gendo. While Gendo tried everything, including committing extremely questionable actions to get Yui back, he failed. Shinji on the other hand, accepted the loss of Rei, and that is what allowed her to be saved. Maybe this would because that would be the thing that Yui and Rei wanted to see from them.
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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby Lennik » Sun May 29, 2016 12:34 pm

View Original PostLightDragonman wrote:Heck, maybe the only way she can return is for Shinji to accept his loss. Like, it would make for a good counter to Gendo. While Gendo tried everything, including committing extremely questionable actions to get Yui back, he failed. Shinji on the other hand, accepted the loss of Rei, and that is what allowed her to be saved.


I ask you, what is the point of accepting consequences if you don't actually end up having to live with them?

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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby gryzzli86 » Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:36 pm

View Original PostLightDragonman wrote:Heck, maybe the only way she can return is for Shinji to accept his loss. Like, it would make for a good counter to Gendo. While Gendo tried everything, including committing extremely questionable actions to get Yui back, he failed. Shinji on the other hand, accepted the loss of Rei, and that is what allowed her to be saved. Maybe this would because that would be the thing that Yui and Rei wanted to see from them.


View Original PostReichu wrote:I wouldn't say that Rei herself represents escapism, but the whole notion of bringing her back from the dead sure as hell does. Shinji's inability to accept reality resulted in him becoming wholly blind to it, and, ultimately, escaping it altogether: his "rescue" of Rei just sinks them both into a fuzzy white limbo, leaving the rest of the world to burn. LDM wonders "what's the point if Rei stays dead?". I wonder "what's the point if she magically comes back?".


Or, quite bluntly, Shinji "is" Gendo and Rei is Yui, in the sense that the Rei fandom is here rooting for Shinji to Bring Back Rei when Gendo wanting to Bring Back Yui, the world be damned, was pretty much his entire motive as an antagonist in EoTV. Maybe that's what Shin Eva is setting us up for, Shinji falling into the exact same mentality as his father (i.e. starting instrumentality, again, to "save" Rei, the world be damned, again) and us as viewers having to finally face that he's not a better person than Gendo. Then again, a pretty good case can be made that that was actually the plot of 2.0, since they did lay on the poka Rei = Mother trying to get Shinji and Gendo be best buds pretty heavily.

Because my two cents is that yes, whether it offends you or not, Anno clearly cannot stand the Rei fandom, or the ShinjixRei fandom, or whatever, because the whole point of Rei is that she is a blank slate that Shinji's projecting his Oedipus complex onto and an actual blank slate would be unbelievably creepy (only we've been desensitized by 20 years of other anime churning out, ironically, Rei clones), and because he's fed up of otakus being more into the idea of body pillows that talk than the idea of at least trying to form relationships with actual human beings. Either way, Rei II is dead, or at least as dead as anyone can be in a universe that features an afterlife of sorts consisting in the mass disembodied consciousness of all mankind, but at any rate she's not making bentos anytime soon. And Shinji not only will not accept his loss of Rei, he's now lost Kaworu as well.
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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby Lennik » Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:35 am

View Original Postgryzzli86 wrote:Or, quite bluntly, Shinji "is" Gendo and Rei is Yui, in the sense that the Rei fandom is here rooting for Shinji to Bring Back Rei when Gendo wanting to Bring Back Yui, the world be damned, was pretty much his entire motive as an antagonist in EoTV. Maybe that's what Shin Eva is setting us up for, Shinji falling into the exact same mentality as his father (i.e. starting instrumentality, again, to "save" Rei, the world be damned, again) and us as viewers having to finally face that he's not a better person than Gendo. Then again, a pretty good case can be made that that was actually the plot of 2.0, since they did lay on the poka Rei = Mother trying to get Shinji and Gendo be best buds pretty heavily.

Because my two cents is that yes, whether it offends you or not, Anno clearly cannot stand the Rei fandom, or the ShinjixRei fandom, or whatever, because the whole point of Rei is that she is a blank slate that Shinji's projecting his Oedipus complex onto and an actual blank slate would be unbelievably creepy (only we've been desensitized by 20 years of other anime churning out, ironically, Rei clones), and because he's fed up of otakus being more into the idea of body pillows that talk than the idea of at least trying to form relationships with actual human beings. Either way, Rei II is dead, or at least as dead as anyone can be in a universe that features an afterlife of sorts consisting in the mass disembodied consciousness of all mankind, but at any rate she's not making bentos anytime soon. And Shinji not only will not accept his loss of Rei, he's now lost Kaworu as well.


I'm gonna disagree on one count. Shinji wasn't trying to bring Rei back in Q. He was trying to restore the world. This is misguided, yes, because it involves trying to bring back "the way things were," but although there's some selfishness in this, I don't think Shinji is going to end up like Gendo anymore. He mentioned the benefit he thought his actions would have for everyone. He was dead wrong, but the very fact that he was hoping for the earth being saved by his actions at least means he gives a shit, unlike Gendo. I think the natural progression of his character from here on out is becoming more considerate of others. The ways he's different from Gendo are so much more important than the ways he's similar.

As for Kaworu, I doubt Shinji's going to try to bring him back. I think he's learned his lesson. I imagine that for most of the final movie, Shinji is going to resolve to do absolutely nothing, because he'll be afraid that everything he tries ends in tragedy and he doesn't want to break anything else.

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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby gryzzli86 » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:05 pm

View Original PostLennik wrote:I'm gonna disagree on one count. Shinji wasn't trying to bring Rei back in Q. He was trying to restore the world. This is misguided, yes, because it involves trying to bring back "the way things were," but although there's some selfishness in this, I don't think Shinji is going to end up like Gendo anymore. He mentioned the benefit he thought his actions would have for everyone. He was dead wrong, but the very fact that he was hoping for the earth being saved by his actions at least means he gives a shit, unlike Gendo. I think the natural progression of his character from here on out is becoming more considerate of others. The ways he's different from Gendo are so much more important than the ways he's similar.

As for Kaworu, I doubt Shinji's going to try to bring him back. I think he's learned his lesson. I imagine that for most of the final movie, Shinji is going to resolve to do absolutely nothing, because he'll be afraid that everything he tries ends in tragedy and he doesn't want to break anything else.


For what it's worth, I really hope you're right. You made an interesting point about Shinji's motives in Q being fundamentally different from Gendo's, and I see that now, and in any case that prospect is getting me to look forward to Shin Eva even more because it feels like a fundamental progression from Shinji's character arc at the end of 2.0 (where Gendo is practically gloating at the sight of Shinji triggering near-3I).
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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby Signer » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:26 am

View Original PostLennik wrote:I think he's learned his lesson.

Wait, wasn't the lesson about how everything brings additional unforeseeable consequences and, just like... thing with Yui brought Rei into this world or 14-year hell made another Rei, Kaworu's death may result in something good, that may be used to bring him back given enough repetition?
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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby Lennik » Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:43 pm

View Original PostSigner wrote:Wait, wasn't the lesson about how everything brings additional unforeseeable consequences and, just like... thing with Yui brought Rei into this world or 14-year hell made another Rei, Kaworu's death may result in something good, that may be used to bring him back given enough repetition?


I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, because it doesn't read very coherently. But I do know there's no reason to think he only learned one lesson and everything else is mutually exclusive.

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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby Signer » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:48 am

Yeah, sorry, I definitely should try to be more clear. It's just that people often forget about parentheses in "(not) redo" and think only about familiar "you can't live in the past" cliche. But that message would contradict efforts to bring back peace, blue seas or any other good things from the past (I mean, eternal fight of space-angel Wunder would be cool, but it would be cool even if it was in the past). Also, Kaworu himself said, that they will meet again and because you can't repeat something perfectly, things will not be the way they were and so maybe this time he will not die horribly.
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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby Rosenakahara » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:33 pm

Probably like shit, like always.
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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby Bagheera » Sun Jul 10, 2016 12:43 pm

View Original PostRosenakahara wrote:Probably like shit, like always.
Because Eva Hates best girl and slightly lesser but still good girl.........Misato.


True. Best girl got speared to death and then resurrected so she can hang out with a guy who thinks strangling people as a way to affirm his own existence is somehow a good idea. Talk about a raw deal!
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Re: How Will Rei be Treated in the Next Film?

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Postby NONAME » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:02 pm

I wonder if WILLE keeps Rei Q as a prisoner, they can actually keep her alive? As far as we know, she needs to take a lot of pills and be in that LCL tank. I know that is probably a stupid question since Ritsuko is in WILLE and she knows all the secrets about Rei (at least in NGE TV) but I still have that doubt.

As for 'original' Rei, I suppose if it's a happy ending then she and Shinji will be reunited again.
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