Bagheera wrote: (Kaworu's line about becoming the 13th being the most egregious, with Asuka's line to Shinji telling him to stand down being a close second).

Wait... So Kaworu didn't say he became the 13th Angel?

robersora wrote:Wait... So Kaworu didn't say he became the 13th Angel?

He did, but in the dub says he was defeated by the 13th Angel. It's a very bad translation of that line.

In the dub Kaworu says: "To think that I could have been so easily ensnared. Me, the first angel, utterly defeated by the thirteenth!". But later he says: "This is happening because I've become the thirteenth angel".

A thought - this could make sense if the thirteenth angel became the first as a result of defeating him, and he then took the place of the former thirteenth. But basing such an interpretation on a dub translation would be very flimsy indeed!

Alternatively, as in EoE the Lilin is described as the eighteenth angel, so in NTE the thirteenth angel could be the Lilin - thus Gendou ("King of the Lilin") defeats Kaworu, resulting in him losing his angel status and becoming mere Lilin himself.

And why would someone choose to watch the film, even with an error like this?

For the benefits they find in the whole experience. If they additionally know about the odd translation, then they will not be misled. Arguably it's less serious than the errors in the EoE dub!

Or what if, as I suggest above, there's a way that it's not strictly an error?

He first says he was "utterly defeated by the 13th," but later he tells Shinji 4th Impact is his fault because he became the 13th Angel, so the message is still there, it's just the one line that's odd. The theatrical dub I have cuts off that part so no idea if it was changed or always like that.

Is this a mistranslation because this is only confusing me. Kaworu in the English dub doesn't lament being cast down to the 13th, but defeated by it. I swear, anyone who has the English dub, check it out as I am not joking. What is he relating to in that context, the Angel or the EVA. . . . or is the "Straggler ADAM" Mari refers to upon awakening?

It's been brought up enough that I think it merits its own thread. I'll link what relevant information I can find:

post/826026/333-English-dub-released-your-thoughts-after-watching/#826026

EDIT: I merged one of the older tangents about it into this thread. The other one would have been a little messier to split, so I'll leave it as is for reference.

Yes, this is a mistranslation. Rather than be "defeated by" he was "cast down" as the 13th. How this got through with Khara overseeing the translation, I have no idea