7 Things You (Probably) Didn't Know About Evangelion

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Postby pwhodges » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:47 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:2.22 explained away the red ocean and pretty much all that's left to cling to is Kaworu being cryptic, but it's Kaworu so that's expected.
An internal time loop unique to the Rebuilds I could maybe see as plausible, but not anything to do with the original.

The quotes I give above provide more support for that.

Wait... why would there be 56 versions of "Fly Me to the Moon" when there's only 26 episodes?
Don't most of them just use the same version anyway with just a change to the background color now and then?

No, they are distinct (different singers, different styles, sometimes no vocals at all). There are also additional versions on the OSTs, I think - but 56 is way over the top. I have a feeling they may also not be the same in the original broadcasts and Renewal - but I've not got around to checking that out yet.
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Re: 7 Things You (Probably) Didn't Know About Evangelion

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Postby Orgeston » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:13 am

On the subject of the rebuild being a sequel:
During NGE ep26, the concept of Shinji being able to shape his universe is explored. At the end of it all he is able to make the decision of whether he keeps living his current life, or starts a different one. This is paralleled in EoE, when Shinji makes the decision to return to his physical form instead of blissfully swimming in tang. Then the rebuild, which starts the same but diverges into an alternate timeline where different decisions were made (Yes, there were completely different characters and angels introduced). There are vague callbacks to the previous iteration, such as Kaworu promising Shinji to make him happy "this time", and the already blood-streaked moon. A repeat sign ( :|| ) is also present at the end of the title of the next movie. In musical terms, that would denote 3+1 as the last measure, followed by a repeat.
Throughout NGE it is explored how the versions of other people in your mind are products of your own perception. This is similar to a concept in dream analysis. Because the dream only takes place in your subconscious, everybody in it is a representation of aspects of yourself. According to dream analysis, a nightmare is your subconscious trying to tell you something very important, and a reoccurring nightmare is communicating a problem that you haven't solved yet.
A huge part of Evangelion is the characters' dire need for self improvement, and their occasional inability to function during life-or-death situations due to their own psychological hang-ups and selfish interests.
Putting together these underlying themes, I propose that perhaps the multiple iterations of Evangelion are in-universe do-overs of the same scenario. Each character lives through this brutal reality with the eventual goal of competently maneuvering the events to their best outcome, and becoming a functional human being through interaction and introspection (So far, of course, the characters seem to be failing at that miserably). Then the end of the timeline is reached, the final impact being the catalyst to starting the world anew, and shadows of elements of the previous iteration are subconsciously internalized within the characters. Meanwhile Kaworu transcends this system, or at least he thought he did.
I'm not saying that the entire scenario is present specifically for these characters, and their personal development. It's just that the events need to unfold properly, and for that to happen the characters need to get it together.

Alternatively, the rebuild is just a whole bunch of nonsense, akin to Lost and its phantom polar bear, and there will never be a sufficient explanation as to why Kaworu said what he did, why the moon is streaked with blood, why Kaworu was in that moon coffin, what's in the other eight coffins, why Lillith looks like Rei, why the Failures of Eternity are all on the surface but their heads are underground, where their helmets went, why Lillith is on top of the skulls as if the FoE died before her but her head is in HQ being lifted up as if she died afterwards, what drilled the hole through the FoE, where Wille got the money and resources to construct AAA Wunder, how they designed the system for the whole crew to sync with AAA Wunder, how Unit-01 got into space, where they got the S2 cores for (apparently) every EVA in the series now, what a Success of Eternity would look like, how anybody still gets LCL if Lillith died, why NERV's finest technology is only coming out now that they're operating with a skeleton crew in a bombarded and elevated HQ that shouldn't have electricity, and other pressing questions. (Excuse me if some of these questions have already been answered, I haven't done a ton of looking around yet)

Reading over this, I'm not sure why I posed these as alternatives. They're certainly not mutually exclusive. I guess this sort of turned into two topics.

EDIT: Woah, I missed pwhodges's link to the thread cataloging alternate reality threads the first time around. This has all been talked about already. Also, Higurashi. That is exactly what I've been mentally comparing this to the whole time. I love that series.
Last edited by Orgeston on Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 7 Things You (Probably) Didn't Know About Evangelion

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:48 am

I somehow missed this thread in September, but I'm with NemZ in toto here (didn't know some of the name stuff; have to investigate that further). I'd honestly never heard of the second one before, and wondered how anyone came away with that impression. I mean, that's not even a fan theory, it's just . . . wrong.

As to the loop business, he's spot on about a NTE-specific loop being plausible but a NGE/NTE loop being far-fetched. No matter what Kaworu's VA says there's no getting around the fact that NTE has a completely different metaphysics than NGE. That does not work with a loop idea. Time loops don't change the fundamental nature of reality, they just change how events play out given one decision or another. So, Kaworu's cryptic comments (and those of his VA) fit with an endless loop in the NTE continuity, but they do not fit with a loop of NGE to NTE.
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Re: 7 Things You (Probably) Didn't Know About Evangelion

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Postby Orgeston » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:24 am

Bagheera wrote:As to the loop business, he's spot on about a NTE-specific loop being plausible but a NGE/NTE loop being far-fetched. No matter what Kaworu's VA says there's no getting around the fact that NTE has a completely different metaphysics than NGE. That does not work with a loop idea. Time loops don't change the fundamental nature of reality, they just change how events play out given one decision or another. So, Kaworu's cryptic comments (and those of his VA) fit with an endless loop in the NTE continuity, but they do not fit with a loop of NGE to NTE.


That's an impressively intimate knowledge of the inner workings of time loops you've got there.
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