unz wrote:No, he needs a custom thing to be fine for upgrades in a few years. If it was a ps4 he'd have no need to buy anything soon (again buying one now isn't out of the question since he's new to everything).

he doesn't NEED it. It would be nice, sure, but there's no reason that just trying the medium out would require or even justify that kind of expense upfront. Hell, there's no reason at all he can't start out with great games from a few years ago because it's all new to him, and that way everything will be super cheap to get a bunch of different things and try a little of everything to see what sorts of games he enjoys.

No genres are just easy terms for reviewers in gaming.

No, they are easy terms made up to describe different types of gameplay and are just as useful to players as to anyone else. "Action" or "strategy" is far too broad... it's helpful to get specific, and if a game crosses multiple genres no worries, we still can know in just a few words what it's about. Is it real-time strategy? 4X? base defense? puzzle? first-person shooter? driving? Flight sim? tournament fighter? Beat-em-up? 3d mass combat? point/click adventure? mmo? loot grinder? platformer? metroidvania? jrpg? fps-rpg? party-based dungeoncrawler? Rouge-like? sandbox? sports sim? rail shooter? scrolling shooter? top-down adventure? Arena shooter? survival horror?

...I'm sure I could think of more if I had more time right now, but I think you get the point.

NemZ wrote:he doesn't NEED it. It would be nice, sure, but there's no reason that just trying the medium out would require or even justify that kind of expense upfront. Hell, there's no reason at all he can't start out with great games from a few years ago because it's all new to him, and that way everything will be super cheap to get a bunch of different things and try a little of everything to see what sorts of games he enjoys.



No, they are easy terms made up to describe different types of gameplay and are just as useful to players as to anyone else. "Action" or "strategy" is far too broad... it's helpful to get specific, and if a game crosses multiple genres no worries, we still can know in just a few words what it's about. Is it real-time strategy? 4X? base defense? puzzle? first-person shooter? driving? Flight sim? tournament fighter? Beat-em-up? 3d mass combat? point/click adventure? mmo? loot grinder? platformer? metroidvania? jrpg? fps-rpg? party-based dungeoncrawler? Rouge-like? sandbox? sports sim? rail shooter? scrolling shooter? top-down adventure? Arena shooter? survival horror?

...I'm sure I could think of more if I had more time right now, but I think you get the point.

Pretty sure he's the only one who can tell what games he needs, generally you wouldn't buy a thing to go retro.
You are missing the point with genres, ofc you can suggest an aspect of the game but they are not things and often devs come up with their own terminology. Decades ago fps games were called doom clones for a lack of better term but being a doom clone suggested a very unique design too.
And you are giving more importance to loads of subgenres rather than the genres they belong to which is ironic. Things like platformers, shooters, beus are all action subgenres, so what? The moment a god of war appears including them all along with "hack n slash" stuff you are just going to call it action.
A lot of games are jacks of all trades crossing different genres so it's even more complicated to describe designs and that's why genres are shortcomings making little sense. It's much easier to talk about design parts. Those are things


ps. gameplay is yet another term people make stuff up about for wiki articles
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/08 ... ing-words/
No such thing as "types of gameplay" either

unz wrote:Pretty sure he's the only one who can tell what games he needs, generally you wouldn't buy a thing to go retro.

He isn't. He already has a computer he wants to game on. It would be deeply counterproductive to spend his bonus on upgrades to the computer and then not have any games to actually play with it, especially since he doesn't seem to know much about what is even out there. MUCH more sensible is going a bit retro (hey, the games are new to him) to buy a dozen or so well-reviewed titles from a few years back for the same cost as a single current game and just try things out. It is afterall one of the biggest benefits of PC over current consoles... backwards compatibility stretching back decades.

And you are giving more importance to loads of subgenres rather than the genres they belong to which is ironic. Things like platformers, shooters, beus are all action subgenres, so what?

Yeah, I am. Listing sub-genres actually tells you something about the game's content beyond 'reflexes will be tested'. If a game touches on multiple subgenres then it is even more helpful to list them, giving a better idea of just what the hell you're actually talking about.

Which description sounds more helpful?

A) God of War is an action game.
B) God of War is a 3d beat-em-up game with some rpg, exploration, platforming, and puzzle elements, spiced up with quick-time cinematics.

And yes, types of gameplay absolutely do exist. Different games involve doing different sorts of things, and how well the game delivers on the player's ability to meaningfully do those things (whatever they are) is rather important. I don't really care what some review site has to say on the matter.

You are missing the points again.
As far as the description goes A is the correct one and you are missing dominants such as "story driven" which is what "territorial control" in this game bends to with all the implications it brings (it could be argued some elements you point out are irrelevant).
You have no idea what types of gameplay are because there's no such thing but whatever, just wanted to spare cyharding some internet and press stupidity for when he meets metacritic/steam reviews/forum bullshit.

Genre terms evolved as useful ways to compare similarities and differences between games. They "exist" in as much as any descriptor does, to help someone who has directly experienced a game to communicate in shorthand an impression of its experience to someone who has not. There's information loss and misleading impressions that come along with the use of the terms, because when someone says thing B is "like" thing A, the person hearing it might have a completely perception of what the essence of A is that anything described as being "like" it should resemble, but that's true of all but the simplest descriptors.

Again...no.
And you are missing the point too, you can describe things but genres don't exist.
They didn't "evolve" nor change to begin with, if anything they lost importance to subgenres and some have been forgotten, the deal about genres is the press following what devs do and trying to describe it not knowing what they deal with. It doesn't mean anything to designers themselves beyond explaining things to funders. Designers don't really have a dictionary to fixate a game and come up with terms and patterns but otherwise things like quake and cs and dota2 have the same arena design, the formers going for polish of mechanics and the latter for variety through heros. You can suggest things but fps and moba are inaccurate descriptions, and designers and pro players realize that, because they don't give away the tactical part about territorial control which is what these games actually are about and tagging games only makes sense as long as you are selling something.

unz wrote:Designers don't really have a dictionary to fixate a game and come up with terms and patterns

Of course we don't. I feel like you're making out the word to be more than it is. From a quick Google search:

define: genre wrote:a category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, characterized by similarities in form, style, or subject matter.

That's all it is.

...What are we talking about in this thread again?

Actually I I think that's my line.
At least that's what game design books remind me back and forth;)

Unz, I think you're mistaking genres and subgenres as being restrictive rather than descriptive.

But yeah, the point was helping cyharding get into pc gaming. Essentially all he really needs to hear is "go check out Steam", and that was mentioned long ago. I'll add to that advice "go buy a usb gamepad" and assume he can work out the rest on his own.

I never thought that this thread would go on for so long. I think it's time to weigh in again, and I'll start by responding what some of you have been discussing since I last posted. First off, I do realize unz that you are trying to help me. For that grazie. As I stated in my last post, however, getting a PS4 would take too much out of my bonus. The only way I could see myself getting one is if my blu-ray player happens to break, and I don't see the thing running into a hammer just to see that. As far as getting a better PC for the job, I already spent around US$900 getting this one. I have seen some of the prices for those in my research and that is just not happening. And Nemz, I don't see myself getting a dozen or so games right away. I see myself getting one game, playing it and after I win (and it must have replay value), getting another. I don't see myself being a hardcore gamer (they make special chairs for them? Seriously?). Regarding you debate on genre, I'm staying out of that one. As for what type of game that I want, I stated earlier that I did have a candidate game, and I might share it later, the only limiters I've decided so far is no game where I have to play with other people (I would be a noob to end all noobs. I would like to keep my embarassing play to myself) and no horror. I have more research to do, but it's going to come down to me sending PMs to people. Be prepared Gentlemen.

NemZ wrote:Unz, I think you're mistaking genres and subgenres as being restrictive rather than descriptive.

But yeah, the point was helping cyharding get into pc gaming. Essentially all he really needs to hear is "go check out Steam", and that was mentioned long ago. I'll add to that advice "go buy a usb gamepad" and assume he can work out the rest on his own.

I don't appreciate condescending tones when you don't know what you are talking about.;l
You can mindwank that much.
I guess they are both? Subgenres imply that even further even if the definition wants them less important than genres.
I don't really care about what you want to pull off though since it sounds like bs, don't know why I should think them one way or the other.
@donut not sure if serious or stupid
@cyharding brb but why pms?

unz wrote:I don't appreciate condescending tones when you don't know what you are talking about.;l

Are you being serious..?

lmao

I think the question has been answered adequately, and now it's getting into casual vs enthusiast territory, which is counterproductive.