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Postby Bagheera » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:21 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:The fact that Kyoko didn't let herself get completely absorbed makes me think her motivation for doing the experiment wasn't anything especially "noble". Remember, this was supposed to be a soul-copying experiment, not a soul-sucking one. She probably thought she could "fix" what went wrong the previous time, and in so doing prove her intellectual superiority and feel that death-cheating high and all that jazz. Then it turns out the monster really is going to eat her soul and she's all "NO I DON'T WANT MY SOUL TO GET EATEN! THERE'S NO WAY I COULD HAVE ANTICIPATED THIS OUTCOME!", and fights the process so the Eva only gets away with the part it wanted the most.


:uhh: Wat? That's an awful lot of fanwank right there. How about "well, fuck, we need these damn things to work, preferably without killing people, so I'll build on Yui's research and try to get it right!" I mean, hell, remember the stakes here; if they don't succeed humanity dies. That doesn't mean egos and such aren't involved, but I think it's a bit silly to presume they're the primary motivation given the enormity of the task at hand.

Regarding the Langley topic, it's not unheard of for people to engage in infidelity when a spouse suffers from prolonged physical or mental illness. Males may be especially prone to this: as a result of long and proud cultural traditions of producing emotionally crippled men, it can be quite easy for a lost and grieving fellow to mistake emotional support from the opposite sex as something sexual, and act accordingly. Naturally, this doesn't excuse the behavior. But it's good to be aware of why it happens, since what better way to prevent it in real life?


Well, sure, but like you say that's no excuse. If you're keen to call Asuka a bitch even though you understand the whys and wherefores of her behavior why not measure Langley using the same yardstick? Yes, he has reasons for being an asshole, but he's still an asshole. Accept it and move on. :devil:
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Reichu » Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:37 pm

gorgeousshutin: I don't agree with a pat definition of "evil". It's useful at best for empty moral posturing, not for solving actual human problems. I'd say, at best, that there are evil deeds, but talking about whether or not a person is in their entirety "evil" just invokes Godwin's Law, and nobody wants that.

In my creative writing, I prefer to impartially dissect an issue. The characters can be the ones to offer up judgments and moral points of view; there's no need for me to drop anvils on people's heads. Maybe the ambiguity would be too much for readers who need others to pat them on the back and tell them, "Good on you for feeling this way about X issue! You're not alone!" And if I don't emphasize my own viewpoint, then readers are apt to go all DoA on me and end up deciding that my story is a parable about Soviet Russia or some crap. But it's a risk I'm willing to take.

I'm not sure where the straw man about "a sin is okay if enough people do it" came from. Of course people shouldn't do bad things. But they do, and they will. Fiction provides a safe way of being introspective about our capacity for wrong, a way to thoroughly explore the "why" of it. I already explained why I feel this is highly beneficial, but if that didn't get the idea across, consider this...

Many, many people are not that far away from doing some horrible thing or another. And many, many people feel lonely and misunderstood. Alienation and hopelessness frequently results in the making of terrible mistakes. This is why compassion is so important. In fiction, where no one is being hurt, there's a lot more flexibility w.r.t. the manifestations of human compassion possible. Someone might mistake you for taking a political stand, depending on what you write about, but fuck 'em! Sometimes a nuanced depiction of the fractured human vulnerability that results in apathy, infidelity, gross negligence, gang warfare, crack babies, etc., is its own damned reward. Someone can read a portrait of a fucked-up character and think, "Holy shit, I'll be this guy if I don't get my act together." Or they'll be like, "Damn, now I know how people end up like that; I think I might be able to help them." A compassionate portrait of a fuck-up will do so much more to help real people than a depiction that is solely scathing and judgmental.

You know what being on the moral high horse does? It alienates people. Which makes them more likely to do stupid shit. Furthermore, what function does moral outrage at nonexistent people serve a writer, aside from needlessly narrowing your dramatic range? (For all my complaining about Asuka, the problems disappear when I "become" such a character in writing.)

Take NGE for example. It has given Papa & StepMom's affair a clearly negative narrative via Asuka's POV. This narrative acts to showcase them as examples of petty, cold-blooded human selfishness, which is what these kinds of people are. NGE kept P and S as cameos because most people found these kinds of characters to be repulsive both in real life and in fiction.

Of course Asuka's POV will be negative -- how would the alternative make any sense whatsoever? I think you're seriously exaggerating the extent to which these characters are depicted as "petty and cold-blooded", however. It's a bit more nuanced than that. If they were cartoon villains cackling away about how they're destroying Asuka's childhood, I don't think this show would be very good. Your claim about why they're cameos also doesn't particularly make any sense.

But I'm seeing people trying to use positive narratives to support Langley and Lady Doctor in Non-AU settings. Thus why I raised this issue in the thread.

And I haven't read any of those narratives, but at the same time I don't see reason to summarily dismiss the concept. Redemption and reconciliation are powerful concepts.

View Original PostRei IV wrote:BTW, I meant to write Katsuragi instead of Akira. Damn your fanfic for resonating with me!

:mwahaha:

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Postby Bagheera » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:12 pm

I love how someone who cheerfully labels a traumatized 13-year-old a "bitch" is moralizing to us based on the fact we have no interest in writing about a guy who cheated on his mentally disabled wife with her primary caregiver within earshot of his 3-year-old daughter. Nuance, she says.

But Asuka's still a bitch. :rolleyes:

Me, I'ma gonna stick with "the guy's in Germany, and he's a jerk, so I don't see the need to bother when I'm writing about characters in Japan." If he were local I could see the argument -- I mean, I did a scene with Gendo, fer chrissakes -- but I'm still not seeing the slightest reason to jump through hoops working him into the narrative somehow (not just for my story, but for any story dealing with the kids as they are in NGE and beyond). I mean, if someone really wants to go to the trouble then more power to 'em, but I can live without the moral judgement for thinking he's not gonna provide enough narrative payoff to be worth the trouble.
Last edited by Bagheera on Sat Sep 12, 2015 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby gorgeousshutin » Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:39 pm

Hmm . . . somewhere along the discussion, a crack fic plot bunny has been born:

An Excuse of a Father: Langley

A non-moral posturing tale that analyze humanity in all its flawed brokenness by listing all possible excuses (valid or otherwise) there are for a father to affair his mentally disabled wife's doctor within earshot of his three year old daughter. Includes generous bashing of said daughter, now thirteen, for being a "bitch" who dares to be so emotionally unstable as to alienate herself from her excuse of a father. Bonus side story: Yesterday's Homewrecker is Today's New Mama.

Moving on . . .

Anyone ever notice how the same Eva fic can have vastly different receptions at FFnet ond AO3? Seems to me the majority of readers and FFnet mostly prefer ShinjiXAsuka fics, while those at AO3 only ever comment on KawoShin works.
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(NGE) The End of Hedgehog_s Dilemma (Updated to Part II Chapter 6 as of May 17, 2016)
(Banana Fish)Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 01, 2016)
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Postby Reichu » Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:58 am

You sound like you're even less fun at parties than I am.

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Postby jcmoorehead » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:42 am

View Original Postgorgeousshutin wrote:Anyone ever notice how the same Eva fic can have vastly different receptions at FFnet ond AO3? Seems to me the majority of readers and FFnet mostly prefer ShinjiXAsuka fics, while those at AO3 only ever comment on KawoShin works.


Yeah I've noticed that, although I think AO3 tends to be frequented by the Tumblr crowd which does tend to be made up of KawoShin shippers more than anything else. That said my stuff doesn't do to badly on there. I haven't actually uploaded Human Equation to FF.net, my one shot Falling From The Moon is on both though.

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Postby Bagheera » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:11 am

See, I say that, and then I write this:

"The final chapter is inspired by the recent Fanfic Recommendations tangent re: Langley. Basically, Asuka's dad pays her a visit circa 2025 or so. Asuka's reflex is to just put on a phony veneer, same as she always has, but after ten years of keeping it real with Shinji and Misato the very thought of it disgusts her. The alternative is to let him have it, burning her bridges and salting the earth behind her, but that's a slap in the face to Shinji -- his father's too cowardly to drag his carcass out of the LCL sea, and his mother is off playing monument to humanity in deep space, so he has no parents to reconcile with. For Asuka to throw the opportunity away . . . no, she owes him better than that. So, she's gonna take the high road. She's gonna reconcile with him.

"Oh, that poor bastard. Had a mid-life crisis and decided it was time to make nice with your daughter, did you? You're in luck! She'll give you a chance, but she's not gonna give it to you for free. You're gonna pay for it in blood, every step of the way, and once you start she ain't gonna let you stop. A snippet of dialogue from this chapter:

"'You know,' she said, 'it's funny. I used to absolutely despise him. He was such a weak and pathetic child; he used the sight of me to pleasure himself, jerking his tiny little dick until he got the release he craved, and when I refused to indulge him he strangled me, not once but twice. When that wasn't enough to satisfy him he used the First Child to end human civilization as we knew it. I mean, how pathetic can you get? He was disgusting. I had every reason to hate him. And yet, even after all of that, I found myself willing to give him the chance to atone. I wanted him to atone, to make the effort, and I'm happy he did.' She glared at him, her eyes boring into his. 'And yet, when I look at you, all I feel is boredom. Do you understand?' she asked. 'He betrayed me. He hurt me. Even now he disgusts me, and yet I want to forgive him. I want him to make that effort. I want to give him that chance. But you . . . ' she shook her head. 'When I look at you, I just want to go home. All of this, this whole thing,' she waved her hand, 'it's just tedious. Why do you suppose that is?'

"He folded his hands, drawing a deep, shuddering breath before raising his head to meet her gaze. 'At a guess,' he rasped, 'I would think it was because he was only a child, as betrayed and broken as you were. While I . . . ' he swallowed thickly. 'I was an adult. I should have known better.'

"She gave him a thin smile. 'Yes,' she murmured. 'I think that might be it.'"

Drat. I might owe Reichu an apology.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby gorgeousshutin » Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:36 am

jcmoorehead, congrats on the Human Equation being well-received at AO3. I do believe Human Equation would make a even bigger splash should it be on FFnet, though.


View Original PostReichu wrote:You sound like you're even less fun at parties than I am.

And here comes that defining moment of SJW-ism: the predictable use of baseless personal attacks whenever she fails to back up her argument with sound logic. But hey, her entertaining posts has inspired spurts of creative writing in my myself and Bagheera so it's all good ;)
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(Banana Fish)Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 01, 2016)
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Postby chee » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:27 am

View Original Postgorgeousshutin wrote:And here comes that defining moment of SJW-ism: the predictable use of baseless personal attacks whenever she fails to back up her argument with sound logic. But hey, her entertaining posts has inspired spurts of creative writing in my myself and Bagheera so it's all good ;)



And here comes that defining moment of le fedora: anyone who rubs you the wrong way is some kind of straw-feminist who lurks deep within the asshole of Tumblr.

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Postby gorgeousshutin » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:38 am

View Original Postchee wrote:And here comes that defining moment of le fedora: anyone who rubs you the wrong way is some kind of straw-feminist who lurks deep within the asshole of Tumblr.

Hi chee. Did your up post contain one word of relevance to Eva fanfiction, or just fanfiction in general? If not, why is it in this thread?

As an aside, that humorous crack fic you've put up in this forum like ages ago is very cute. Will it be continued?
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Postby chee » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:43 am

You are an early Christmas.

The fun you and I will have is going to be fucking mythic.

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Postby gorgeousshutin » Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:50 am

EBVANGELION: THE REEVLALATIONS OF IMPACT is such an entertaining piece of work. I'm glad the same can now be said about its creator.
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Postby chee » Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:04 am

Are you a laxative? Because my ass has the sudden urge to shit in your mailbox. The mailbox of your life.

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Postby Stillborn » Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:06 am

A literal butthurt at third post. That went down fast :lol:
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Postby UrsusArctos » Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:12 am

View Original Postgorgeousshutin wrote:EBVANGELION: THE REEVLALATIONS OF IMPACT is such an entertaining piece of work. I'm glad the same can now be said about its creator.


That's enough passive-aggressive behavior and personal attacks. Another instance of poor behavior from you will merit a ban.
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Postby gorgeousshutin » Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:12 pm

jcmoorehead, I've finished Falling from the Moon on AO3. Your command over Asuka X Shinji angst is solid there and totally deserves the kudos :D
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(Banana Fish)Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 01, 2016)
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Postby NemZ » Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:33 pm

[s]All that unpleasantness has been purged. Reichu, gorgeousshutin and Chee... consider yourselves warned[/s].

EDIT: Brought back to provide context for any further staff action. Ignore the tangent. -Ursus
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Postby gorgeousshutin » Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:52 pm

Am very happy to have discovered this following old gem:

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/3952276/1/Shinji-Almighty

The plot is one of the best I've yet seen in humor EVA fics, and the OOCs all make sense too. I would've left reviews if I still think they check their FFnet account (the last fic update was in 2010).
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(Banana Fish)Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 01, 2016)
http://archiveofourown.org/users/gorgeousshutin/works
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Postby gorgeousshutin » Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:32 am

To the Mods: I know this is unrelated to fanfic, and a double post, but if at all possible, please allow this post to stay on for a while.

To everyone reading, I would like to make an apology here for my part in what happened earlier on.

For the past 24 hrs, I’ve received PMs from Gob Hobblin and Bagheera concerning what happened earlier on at the thread. Gob, in particular, wrote repeatedly dissecting the situation in depth to me, leading me to see the gravity of what I did, and the need to make a formal apology. I have already written apologies to all individuals involved via PM - not to ask for anyone’s forgiveness, but to address that I now know I acted wrongly for the situation.

By writing this posting, I would like apologize to readers who might have chanced upon the earlier exchange, as well as to other members who felt the peace of their forum disturbed because of it.

I only post sporadically over at this forum. Most of the posters here are only names to me. I do not know much (if anything) about the prior histories of the regular members, nor of the pre-existing relationships between the individuals.

I’ll make this vague because I don’t want to bring back the ugliness. Basically I’ve made an accusation against Reichu based on just a few traded posts –- with no knowledge of her actual person and situation -- which ended up excessive and inappropriate. As for Chee, I've mentioned EBVANGELION (which I actually liked, and had praised at its thread before) during the back and forth, in a manner that likely came across as passive aggressive instead of at all funny. Regardless of what others had posted, nothing good came out of my since deleted posts. I regret having ever posted them at this thread.

To everyone affected in any way: I am sorry for the trouble I’ve caused.

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(Banana Fish)Medusa (Updated to Chapter 3 as of Mar 01, 2016)
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Postby UrsusArctos » Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:56 am

View Original Postgorgeousshutin wrote:To the Mods: I know this is unrelated to fanfic, and a double post, but if at all possible, please allow this post to stay on for a while.


No trouble at all, you've done a very good thing by explaining your actions and apologizing in public. Unless someone has any further issues to raise (which I doubt by this point), let bygones be bygones.

And thank you Gob for clearing things up! :asuka_thumbsup:
[Became a moderator on December 31st, 2007. Became an administrator on September 7th, 2013.]
Not knowing that Monk is bi is like not knowing the Pope is Catholic - ZapX.
You're either really bad at interpreting jokes or really good at pretending you are and I have no idea which.-Monk Ed
WAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!(<-link to lunacy)...Taste me, if you can bear it. (Warning: Language NSFW)
The main point of idiocy is for the smart to have their lulz. Without human idiocy, trolling would not exist, and that's uncool, since a large part of my entertainment consists of mocking the absurdity and dumbassery of the world, especially the Internet.-MaggotMaster


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