No Happy Ending? Predestination In Rebuild.

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby Reichu » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:32 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:I think this boils down to me seeing EoE through the warped lens of EoTV rather than the other way around.

But I thought they were separate continuities!! :-O

If one were so inclined that could be read as alluding to Rei very much preparing to go mucking about in various timelines.

Sure, if you want to read it completely out of context from everything else, which cannot be recommended. At this point, everyone is talking about determination of self, so my first guess would be that her cryptic line is a way of saying, "Your future, along with the subjective pace of your life, are both malleable things."
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Postby NemZ » Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:32 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:But I thought they were separate continuities!! :-O


They are, meaning what's going on within each ending is unaffected by the other. That doesn't mean we can't recognize from an outside perspective that both are trying to get at the same underlying message but presented very differently, with EoE borrowing bits from EoTV and twisting them into new shapes along the way.

My point is I see EoTV as a perfectly valid ending in and of itself, and thus tend to pick up on the borrowings and ponder why they're being used again, how it's different and what that means. Others continue to see EoTV as just an imperfect telling of what EoE was meant to be all along, and so tend to dismiss the differences as merely kinks that were worked out later.

Sure, if you want to read it completely out of context from everything else, which cannot be recommended.


I don't think it is out of context. As I mentioned with Yui in the same scene, these comments can be read both as advising him AND hinting at what will be in store for the speakers when they go their separate ways. Yui's comments are both encouraging him that the struggle is worth it and come across as talking herself up for the long great isolated nothingness ahead of her. By the same token, Rei telling Shinji that he can make up his own mind, his choices, and so create his future and his future self is ALSO hinting that she's going to literally start experimenting with choices and future outcomes as quantum!Rei. Kaworu is a bit more enigmatic, but then it's not clear if he has any future at all or if he's really just an inseparable part of Lilith now.
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Postby Mr. Jive » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:57 pm

some stuff I fond on the net.

SPOILER: Show
Anno:I’m often asked if Shinji-kun [represents] an old version of myself, but that’s not the case. Shinji-kun is my current self (laughing). I act like a fourteen-year-old boy; I’m still childish. No matter how you look at it, in psychological terms, I’m [still] in the Oral Stage. A melancholic oral-dependent type. Well, this is a truth I can’t deny; I can’t do anything about it. I wanted to move forward from there, but the result was that I ended up regressing back to myself. A dead end.
Takekuma: Then in a certain sense EOE is an unhappy ending.
Anno: Right, in a certain sense. If you take moving beyond that as being happy, then it’s an unhappy ending. If you think it’s fine, then it’s a happy ending.



Have fun whit that kiddies. all I know is any movie that end whit the ocean red as blood, headless robots nail to a cross, a giant head of angle/school girl smiling at her unstable pilots who both now have a bad case of PTSD, The dead skies where you can see there blood on the moon, a loser that never learn to understood or love himself along whit people around him that start strangling his former roommate( who is helpless by the way) that after she make him stop tell him how much he make her sick is not what I call a happy or hopeful ending. The manga on the other hand is more a positive ending whit showing the kids moving on and finding their own way. And having kensuke in there give it more of a positive, hopeful ending seeing how he the last sane man in EVA. [/spoiler]
Kensuke not a saint but at least he's not a psycho jerking off to a girl in a comma.

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Postby pwhodges » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:08 pm

View Original PostMr. Jive wrote:And having kensuke in there give it more of a positive, hopeful ending seeing how he the last sane man in EVA. [/spoiler]

No love for the bridge bunnies, then?
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Postby Seoul Gamer » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:33 pm

It states in the preview for Final that Shinji will "learn hope", or words to that effect, and that's enough to convince me. Mind you, previews can be completely wrong, as we saw with the preview for Q. : P

What I find difficult to fathom is what, if anything, Shinji can actually do in the next film. He's not getting into an Eva ever again, that's for sure. Perhaps hope, for Shinji, will involve the realisation that the world doesn't revolve around him and that he should simply let Wille do what they have to do without him.

Fanwanking aside, it doesn't look like the focus will be on punishment, more on teaching Shinji to cease caring about his own needs and put others first for a change. Otherwise, it would amount to changing Shinji into a villain protagonist, which is much more Gendo's scene.
Be warned, I may occasionally ask stupid questions.

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Postby Sachi » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:51 pm

View Original PostSeoul Gamer wrote:Mind you, previews can be completely wrong, as we saw with the preview for Q. : P

The preview wasn't wrong; it was just for an episode that we skipped. :P I'm convinced that it was a really clever plot device to allude to the events that occurred during the time skip while keeping the events of Q a complete surprise.
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Postby zlink64 » Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:03 pm

That be a cool if it became like dvd bonus in the future.

Evangelion Rebuild: The missing episode!!
hmmm
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Postby KingXanaduu » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:57 pm

View Original PostSeoul Gamer wrote:
What I find difficult to fathom is what, if anything, Shinji can actually do in the next film. He's not getting into an Eva ever again, that's for sure. Perhaps hope, for Shinji, will involve the realisation that the world doesn't revolve around him and that he should simply let Wille do what they have to do without him.



Well, that being said, while I am okay with the idea of learning to put the needs of others before himself, I'd still like for him to play a role in Final aside from just staying on the sidelines and letting Wille clean up his mess. While a message of Evangelion is learning to accept your limitations, the big theme in Rebuild is learning to work with the world around you, even if it causes you pain.

Yes, Shinji isn't a soldier, but he can learn to be one and fight on their side so he has a place in this world. I wouldn't want to think that he's better off away from Wille if he's considered useless. Cause like it or not, Misato and Asuka are all the "family" he's had.
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---------------------------------------
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Postby Sicarius VI » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:06 pm

View Original Postzlink64 wrote:That be a cool if it became like dvd bonus in the future.

Evangelion Rebuild: The missing episode!!


Some speculation in the past suggest we get a flashback sequence in the first half of 4.0 if it turns out to be a long movie.
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Postby Ispellnogood » Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:54 am

Not only this is optmistic in EoE, it made me happy.


:lol: I'm reminded of that scene from Naked Gun where they're leaving a showing of Platoon laughing with happiness.

I think calling EoTV or EoE optimistic is a stretch.

Eotv's optimistic message is pretty much just two lines at the end, lines which state the obvious. Eotv never really struck me as being about important messages anyway. The ending to me seemed more like one of those bleak, twilight zone twist endings.

EoE's message was "YOU ARE A DIGUSTING WRETCH! THE LOWEST OF THE LOW!"
With a dash of "it's upto you to change that."

Evangelion really isn't about optimistic messages to live by. Evangelion is more like the bully who made you stand up for yourself by beating you up, or someone who motivated you into making something of yourself by calling you a pathetic loser.


What I find difficult to fathom is what, if anything, Shinji can actually do in the next film. He's not getting into an Eva ever again, that's for sure. Perhaps hope, for Shinji, will involve the realisation that the world doesn't revolve around him and that he should simply let Wille do what they have to do without him.



That would piss me off if anno does that. Shinji leaving eva with a whimper and with the destruction of the world being the greatest thing he did. It wouldn't suprise me if he did that though. It has the same frustrating and ball busting feel as all the other stuff he's done with Shinji in evangelion. Being a negative caricature of sucking really does seem to be Shinji's unfortunate and unchanging purpose in evangelion.


The preview wasn't wrong; it was just for an episode that we skipped. :P I'm convinced that it was a really clever plot device to allude to the events that occurred during the time skip while keeping the events of Q a complete surprise.


Slaps in the face work best when they have the element of surprise.

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Postby Dream » Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:22 pm

A friend once described me as "the most optimistic pessimist i've ever known". I think a similar thing could be said about Eva.

Being a negative caricature of sucking really does seem to be Shinji's unfortunate and unchanging purpose in evangelion.


Not sure but this is a hilarious sentence :lol:
"Every line is a joy" -Kaworu Nagisa.

"Nothing great was ever achieved without enthusiasm." - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

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Postby nostalgic_beer » Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:55 pm

View Original PostIspellnogood wrote:
I think calling EoTV or EoE optimistic is a stretch.

Eotv's optimistic message is pretty much just two lines at the end, lines which state the obvious.

EoE's message was "YOU ARE A DIGUSTING WRETCH! THE LOWEST OF THE LOW!"

With a dash of "it's upto you to change that."



EoE's message to me was "the series keep talking about something called Instrumentality, we are finally going to show what it is but give you a glimpse of hope": all viewers start to get sad because everyone they loved in the series is becoming LCL, "is this really the end?" and then you get

Anyone can return to human form...
as long as they are able to imagine themselves within their own heart.
Don't worry.
All living creatures have the power to be brought back to life...


and

Fuyutsuki asks Yui if her real intention behind Eva is for the Eva to become God. Yui replies that is the case, and how Eva can live forever, along with the human soul within her. Even after the Earth, Moon and Sun are lost, the Evangelion will be eternal proof of humanity's existence.


From a LCL perspective, this is optimistic, and made me happy.

Now let's wait for Final. I can change my mind. :devil:
“It is as if a person were a prisoner, and he had not only the intention to escape, which would perhaps be attainable, but also, and indeed simultaneously, the intention to rebuild the prison as a pleasure dome for himself. But if he escapes, he cannot rebuild, and if he rebuilds, he cannot escape.” - Franz Kafka, Letter to His Father November 1919.

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Postby Arcadia's legacy » Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:24 am

You will (not) change your mind
Never let the flame that is hope burn out, for despite the length of the night, the sunrise will always come
""Trolling the audience" is the same thing as "challenging the audience" (to an audience that doesn't want to be challenged)." -Reichu


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