Mari is gay for Yui (_very_ serious thread)

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri May 01, 2015 11:28 pm

View Original PostAlphaGamma wrote:Then there is the fact that Yuko Miyamura in her 3.0 interview at a certain point actually imitates a cat's noise.


She made cat noises along with dog barking/whining noises, funny enough. Even back in NGE, there were Shinji = puppy connections (Epi 8 background dialogue). Who know if it's meant to be shipping(?) or silliness on Miyamura's end, though! :lol:
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Postby AlphaGamma » Sat May 02, 2015 8:42 am

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:She made cat noises along with dog barking/whining noises, funny enough. Even back in NGE, there were Shinji = puppy connections (Epi 8 background dialogue). Who know if it's meant to be shipping(?) or silliness on Miyamura's end, though! :lol:

Oh, it is shipping. In an interview during SMASH 2012 she actually clearly states her hopes for Asuka and Shinji to have a happy ending ([url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sunh3Je1uTs[/url] min. 7:19 and transcript of the interview is linked in the desc). The interview is post-3.0 too, as she was done playing the part.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat May 02, 2015 11:47 am

View Original Postgwern wrote:It has everything to do with viewers' tastes; Asuka is a character in an anime, whose purpose is, at end, to entertain. Do fans like catgirls and have liked them for decades? Heck yeah. Do fans like Catska?

[...]

Remember: service, service, service!

I’m not negating that presence of fan-service. But there is a more nuanced point as to how it is form and where it comes from. Part of the “appeal” of a lot of Asuka’s fan-service moments (especially in NTE) comes from the fact that it doesn’t suit her preferences. It’s part of what helps fuel that “Tsundere” perception people seem to have on the character. (“I don’t like this, but I’ll do it anyway, but not for you or anything like that.”) Even her non-tsundere complaints are part of the service she provides the fans. It’s part of what makes her an entertaining character to watch. If something (not someone, hence allowing for character growth) were to suddenly be agreeable with Asuka, then part of that structure for that fan-service Asuka was supposed to have provided the audience is missing, hence why her complying with R&D is more serviceable to the fans than R&D complying with her, hence my point still standing.

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Postby El Squibbonator » Sun May 03, 2015 2:50 pm

And as a cat owner, I can say that they are a whole species of tsunderes, so the motif suits her perfectly!
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun May 03, 2015 6:00 pm

^ We'll see after Eva Shin. Eva conclusions seem to like to drop shipping right at the end. (Maya and Ritsuko in EoE and so on.)

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Postby Shoujo Kakumei Asuka » Sun May 03, 2015 6:33 pm

As far as the inner shipper in me goes, I'd rather they just mass-produced Kaworu and gave another to Asuka, but that probably comes from the fact that I really don't like Mari that much. I do think Rebuild does like to drop "shipping" hints even with pairings that they don't fully support. It's like how they appeared to drop some LAS stuff in 3.0 even though I severely doubt that Shinji and Asuka are going to end up together in any way in Final. So I think the hat and such was definitely pointing towards shipping, but they aren't definitely saying anything yet. After all Mari and Asuka sells merchandise by the truckload. It's more likely than LAS at this point, but I wouldn't say that any Asuka pairing is going to happen in Final.
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Postby gwern » Sun May 03, 2015 7:00 pm

View Original PostShoujo Kakumei Asuka wrote:As far as the inner shipper in me goes, I'd rather they just mass-produced Kaworu and gave another to Asuka, but that probably comes from the fact that I really don't like Mari that much. I do think Rebuild does like to drop "shipping" hints even with pairings that they don't fully support.


The treachery of images must be kept in mind. Eva is not deterministically designed in advance but improvised and retconned. The 2.0 CRC makes this very clear even to those who haven't been following the internal evolution of Eva episodes based on drafts etc and attaining a 'live' feeling:

http://www.gwern.net/docs/eva/2010-crc wrote:--- Even if episode 19 is a masterpiece, in reality its structure lacks strength. Notwithstanding that, why does Eva as a whole appear this way [i.e., to be structurally sound]?

`Tsurumaki:` From this point on, these are completely my own suppositions, so Anno-san would probably reject this, but the secret is, I think, likely to be Anno-san himself. Anno-san is not someone who creates according to an inductive method^[帰納的], but according to a deductive method^[演繹的]. The inductive methodology would involve deciding one one's destination and working out what you will do to get there, but that's not the case [with Anno], who hasn't really decided what the end point will be. Even if he has decided [on something, he's done it] very vaguely, and as he tries to go on he gets bored with it.^[それを積み重ねていくような演繹的な人なんです。] I have reached the point where I firmly believe this.

To put it another way, he just ends up choosing the things he likes. For example, suppose that there is a fork in the road. [He's?] faced with [the choice] "save Rei/not save Rei" and [he] chooses "save Rei". [He's] faced with [the choice] "pilot Eva/not pilot Eva" and [he] chooses "pilot Eva". [He] goes on choosing the path he likes from a continuous series of two alternatives. The structure of Eva's story is assembled in this manner. It's no longer a structure.

...

--- There's one thing that mystified me. Despite the fact that the original scenario for the climax was different, in "Prelude" Gendou mentions something like a "love love strategy" intended to bring Rei and Shinji closer together. Why does that appear to be consistent [with "Break"]?

`Tsurumaki:` Anno-san probably hasn't thought about that very deeply.

--- Eh? That wasn't foreshadowing?

`Tsurumaki:` We on the staff had a conversation about that dialogue from "Prelude", wondering if it was okay to have [Gendou] say that. Not to mention that I thought Rei II was going to die in "Break".

--- Then why, despite that, was there a consistency?

`Tsurumaki:` This is evidence that the story was developed, not with an "inductive" technique, but with a "deductive" one. "He already said it there, so we have no choice". It's something like a methodology where [the story] is adjusted, even forcibly, to be consistent with what has already been done.

--- This is quite a shock (laughing)! Surely, immediately following "Prelude", there are people who grin and say of the "love love strategy", "This is a big change!" Surely it leaves a strong impression on everyone. As a result, they will surely think during "Break", "Ah, as I thought, those two were brought together!"

`Tsurumaki:` The impression that Anno-san mainly wanted to convey was that Gendou and Fuyutsuki were devising a secret plot. Because Shinji happens to go to Rei's room just after that, that was what they discussed. When "secret plot" and "Shinji and Rei" were combined, it probably appeared something like "a strategy to bring together Shinji and Rei".

--- Rather than being disappointed, I'm impressed. All the more, I have a pleasant feeling that things have become "Eva-esque". The fact that this consistency is inherent [makes it] extremely valuable; I am delighted [to think] that this may be the much-discussed "live feeling". In any case, there will surely be many viewers who have the impression that, this time, Gendo's Human Instrumentality Project [somehow depends on] this "love love strategy". Fuyutsuki also says something like, "As we thought, owing to those two Unit-01 has awakened".


(Forgive the length, but this is really an important thing to understand if you're going to bother spending even a second trying to interpret Rebuild while it's still unfinished.)

So if Rebuild seems to be dropping many hints, this is partially because it has not been decided whether the cat in the box is alive or dead, and partially to keep various options open; once Rebuild is finished, then the possibilities will have collapsed and they will try to make the final outcome appear seamless and inevitable, even if they have to retcon things or wind up ignoring some hints.
Last edited by gwern on Mon May 04, 2015 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby AlphaGamma » Mon May 04, 2015 12:25 pm

View Original Postgwern wrote:The treachery of images must be kept in mind. Eva is not deterministically designed in advance but improvised and retconned. The 2.0 CRC makes this very clear even to those who haven't been following the internal evolution of Eva episodes based on drafts etc and attaining a 'live' feeling:

So if Rebuild seems to be dropping many hints, this is partially because it has not been decided whether the cat in the box is alive or dead, and partially to keep various options open; once Rebuild is finished, then the possibilities will have collapsed and they will try to make the final outcome appear seamless and inevitable, even if they have to retcon things or wind up ignoring some hints.

That is only true to an extent. People see the events of 3.0 as a retcon of some kind but, based on the interview with Kaworu's VA, they were alrdy planned in advance.

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Postby gwern » Mon May 04, 2015 12:44 pm

View Original PostAlphaGamma wrote:That is only true to an extent. People see the events of 3.0 as a retcon of some kind but, based on the interview with Kaworu's VA, they were alrdy planned in advance.


The only interviews I've seen with him were so vague that it could really have fit many scenarios, and if it hadn't? Oh well - the VAs say a lot of stuff.

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Postby El Squibbonator » Thu May 14, 2015 4:10 pm

How much inside information do VA's have about the direction the series is going to take, anyway?
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Postby Sachi » Thu May 14, 2015 4:54 pm

View Original PostEl Squibbonator wrote:How much inside information do VA's have about the direction the series is going to take, anyway?

Only those with inside knowledge could tell you. :tongue: Though, Kaworu's VA was supposedly let on about a lot more things than the rest of the cast was as early as 1.0.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Thu May 14, 2015 5:32 pm

Yep, he all but flat-out said in his 3.0 interview that Anno let him in on the timeskip during 1.0 production. It was apparently to the point that he was surprised other staff didn't know that's the direction Anno was taking the film series.
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