The origin of "Those who hate themselves..." quote

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Suicidahlia
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The origin of "Those who hate themselves..." quote

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Postby Suicidahlia » Fri Jan 23, 2015 11:37 am

Years ago, I remember reading Evageeks wiki and being shocked that someone noticed the copying of a not very iconic scene (kudos to you - I completely forgot that this scene exists in BDB), and yet missed this, because it's much more obvious.
At the ending of 26, Rei says this to Shinji:
Those who hate themselves cannot love or trust others

Well, guess what? It's not Anno's (or whoever wrote this part of script) original idea.
Rei's words come directly from the 28th episode of Brother Dear Brother.
A quick infodump for those who haven't seen Oniisama E (there will be spoilers!)
Mariko is a daughter of author of many pornographic novels, who cheated on her mother. This turned her in self-hating mess and a raging misandrist (as well as suicidal yandere, though it's a topic for different conversation). Despite her disgust for her father's ravenous sexuality, Mariko is consumed by love toward the parent. She becomes downright dangerous to herself and people around her, culminating in her trying to burn down her house. All of this leads straight to her father giving her talk on self-hatred.
You can watch the scene here. It lasts about two minutes and clocks to around 20:20.
Here's the most relevant part of the script:

[Mariko's father]
There's no mistake, perhaps everyone who knows me would call me useless scum. Neglecting my family, and not even a top-notch writer, and I just live my days carelessly. But you know, Mariko, even though I'm like that, I believe that I have some positive traits. Others might not see it but I think I have some strengths that only I know about. I cherish that part of me. I even love it somehow. Do you know why? Because I can't live on without it. No, because whatever happens, if I have just that, I believe I can keep living on.
Who could possibly love you, if you don't love yourself? Can you love others without loving yourself?


[Mariko]
I can. I'm like that, but still, I love you, dad!


From what I remember, this scene doesn't exist in Riyoko Ikeda's manga (or plays out in different way). I might be wrong, because I watched/read BDB about six years ago. Though for those of you who have never seen the whole series the scene might seem overly dramatic and cheesy (well, it is oldschool shoujo), it was truly touching in context of Mariko's slow descent into madness. It must have had even more of emotional impact back when the series was aired, so it's not weird that EVA pays homage to it. Unless those words in both series are a reference to something even older, I think that it would be good to ad this tidbit of info to Evageeks wiki.
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Postby Compiling_Autumn » Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:09 pm

I mean, the general idea is hardly a new concept. I've heard tons of people, people who have never watched anime, say the same thing.
"The will to lose one's will?"
"Absolutely. The will to make oneself completely free. Will is the wrong word, because in the end you could call it despair. Because it really comes out of an absolute feeling of it's impossible to do these things, so I might as well just do anything. And out of this anything, one sees what happens."--Francis Bacon

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Postby Suicidahlia » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:22 am

Yeah, it's possible - however taking in account the other BDB inspired scene, I wouldn't see this as a coincidence... especially since google only connects it with BDB or Evangelion.
I've never seen it directly expressed in anything else but those two shows.
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You were freezing]

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Postby BakaBobcat » Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:29 pm

While the specific way the quote is structured may only bring up BDB in google, loving yourself as a precursor to loving others is a fairly common concept that's been around for a long time.


If you must love your neighbor as yourself, it is at least as fair to love yourself as your neighbor.
Nicholas de Chamfort


Love brings you face to face with your self. It's impossible to love another if you cannot love yourself.
John Pierrakos


It applies particularly well to Shinji because his lack of self love is his one true crippling character flaw. While there does tend to be some disagreement about Shinji as a character, I think when you take away the self hatred, you have a brave smart selfless person.
.....Then what is your hand for?


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