Did Hideaki Anno base Gendo on himself?

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Postby Ispellnogood » Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:38 am

My impression of Seele's and Gendo's version is

Seele's Death and Rebirth.
Humanity being liquified, and their souls being divided into the eva series, with a Seele member soul at the helm of each eva. Humanity dying and being reborn/converted into a human angels ( the eva series), As Seele sees the angel form/state of being as the true successors and the hope at the bottom of Pandora's box.

Gendo's Death and .....Goop.
Humanity being liquified, and their souls joining into one being either inside Lilith/Adam with Gendo at the helm, or Unit 01 with with Gendo/Yui at the helm. It's probably what he meant when he said "soon the last angel will show, and with it's defeat our plans will be realised". It could be seen that in EoTV at least, that he isn't doing this because of his love for Yui, but because of his "Closed Heart" he sees it as the only way he could exist with humanity. Taking that into account, Gendo seems heaps more unappealing and heaps more "emo" than Shinji.

I think this process would have been forceful process, As Misato shows her outrage "who made you humanities overseer" to Ritsuko. Which I found to be a bit dissapointing, as I doubt Ritsuko was the initiator.

I think Anno sees Gendo as the hero of the story. But he's the only one does, the rest see him as a dick, an arsehole, the villian who wins and doesn't get his. Thus Gendo is the focus of everybodies hated and loathing.

I also think that Anno tried to rectify and change this in EoE, with Shinji's shining moment and Gendo's line "Humanity must change and shape this new world" which I thought was majorly OoC (except for the stoic and dead delivery of the line). I also he tried to justify Gendo in Eoe with the line "Our defeat is assured" like he tried to preserve humanity, and Seeles forcing him to start his version of third impact. It would like trying to justify Shinji with "But Asuka, I had to releive my balls, otherwise they swell up, explode and I die." or "No Asuka, that wasn't semen on my hands, I was eating an icecream."

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:03 am

View Original PostIspellnogood wrote:I'm an Eva fanboy, I do enjoy eva discussion and think it's worthy of scrutiny. But I also beleive it's a lot of this too "Shinji represents the id, ego and Gendo represents blah blah blah PenPen is the inner child, right Mr Anno?". :bigeyes: "Ahhh....... Y yes." :shifty:


What makes you think that isn't what he had in mind? We don't know.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
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Postby Ispellnogood » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:44 am

I believe that the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

Also if something sounds too complex, convoluted, subtle, intelectual and perfect to be true, then it probably isn't.

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Postby pwhodges » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:51 am

"Isn't true", or "isn't too convoluted etc to be true"? :devil:
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Postby Ispellnogood » Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:01 pm

Didn't you see my ingenius name?

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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:53 pm

View Original PostIspellnogood wrote:I believe that the simplest explanation is usually the right one.

Also if something sounds too complex, convoluted, subtle, intelectual and perfect to be true, then it probably isn't.


It is the simple explanation.
If we can create all these "deep" interpretations, then so can Anno. And he probably thought about the series hours a day.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
"In any case, it (Kill la Kill) is the greatest work of fiction ever written and should be taught in schools." -Squigsquasher
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:24 pm

If this was already addressed, whoops, but I thought Anno once said he based all the NGE characters on different parts of himself, no?
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Postby Chuckman » Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:58 pm

I recall him saying that Mari is the only one not based on himself, which implies all the others are.

Though I doubt the incidental/background characters in Q are based on him, unless part of Anno is a pink haired girl with purdy lips.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 9:42 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:unless part of Anno is a pink haired girl with purdy lips.

She is part of all of us.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
"In any case, it (Kill la Kill) is the greatest work of fiction ever written and should be taught in schools." -Squigsquasher
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Postby Ispellnogood » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:40 am

It is the simple explanation.
If we can create all these "deep" interpretations, then so can Anno. And he probably thought about the series hours a day.

The greatest Evageeks minds have been discussing the character motivations and meanings of Evangelion for many years now. If you think what's been discussed over the years here is simple, then i'm a cockroach compared to you. There still isn't and probably won't be any agreement on a lot of stuff. There're vague inconsistencies that support theories/arguements one time, and other inconsistencies that discredit them the next time. Don't get me wrong I think it's wonderful that the show inspires such scrutiny from fans, but the realist in me believes it was accidental.



If this was already addressed, whoops, but I thought Anno once said he based all the NGE characters on different parts of himself, no?


I'd be willing to concede that EoTV Shinji and Gendo are part of a Phsyke, with Gendo being the favourite.
But the smearing Shinji got in EoE was far too vicious for me to beleive he was ever part of Anno. It seemed more like FU Shinji/Otaku.


I recall him saying that Mari is the only one not based on himself, which implies all the others are.


I'm certain it was more of a message to eva fan/otaku.

In 2.0 after Gendo/Anno say "grow up" to Shinji, he fights the angel and say "I don't care about the world, I care about Ayanami." I interpret that as an Otaku/eva fan escaping reality into the anime world of eva.
15 years later
In Q everybody resents Shinji for being an eva otaku, and bring the world into ruin.
Asuka in Q, To me she screams stop masturbating to me.
Curse Of Eva, Really means Curse Of the Eva otaku- they don't grow up.
Rei Q, is something not real enough to care about, so you shouldn't.
Gendo/Anno is King of the lilium.
Mari, is a Tissue Saleswoman. Ha! for Eva she's such a cliche new pilot character, even if Anno decides to have her and Asuka les out in 4.0 as some sort otaku torture, she will still be cliche. It's a shame actually.
I think Anno's saying that so 4.0 will make more then 10 dollars.

Sorry I would have gone into more detail but I can't be bothered writing about Q anymore.

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Postby Compiling_Autumn » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:03 am

View Original PostIspellnogood wrote:But the smearing Shinji got in EoE was far too vicious for me to beleive he was ever part of Anno. It seemed more like FU Shinji/Otaku.


I wouldn't exactly read Shinji's depiction and behavior in EoE as a "smear" that distances the character from Anno. Keep in mind the rumors that Anno stalked one of the VAs from Gunbuster.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:17 am

Which was false, via Carl Horn (might be thinking of a voice actress from Nadia).

Edit: Found it! It was about Miyamura: http://forum.evageeks.org/post/16516/a-new-manga-about-Hideaki-Anno-and-his-baby/#16516
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Postby Guy Nacks » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:22 am

I thought it was with Noriko Hidaka (Noriko in Gunbuster and Jean in Nadia).
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

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Postby ElMariachi » Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:51 am

View Original PostIspellnogood wrote:I'm certain it was more of a message to eva fan/otaku.

In 2.0 after Gendo/Anno say "grow up" to Shinji, he fights the angel and say "I don't care about the world, I care about Ayanami." I interpret that as an Otaku/eva fan escaping reality into the anime world of eva.
15 years later
In Q everybody resents Shinji for being an eva otaku, and bring the world into ruin.
Asuka in Q, To me she screams stop masturbating to me.
Curse Of Eva, Really means Curse Of the Eva otaku- they don't grow up.
Rei Q, is something not real enough to care about, so you shouldn't.
Gendo/Anno is King of the lilium.
Mari, is a Tissue Saleswoman. Ha! for Eva she's such a cliche new pilot character, even if Anno decides to have her and Asuka les out in 4.0 as some sort otaku torture, she will still be cliche. It's a shame actually.
I think Anno's saying that so 4.0 will make more then 10 dollars.

Didn't Anno explicitly denied that EoE was a "Fuck You" to the otakus, but rather him wanting to convey the message that they shouldn't isolate themselves in their little bubble (be it personal or via a fandom) and to don't be afraid to meet new people?
IIRC, he even said in another interview that he gave up the idea to try to transmit a message to the fanbases in Rebuild.

For me Rebuild is simply a retelling of the core story of Eva, then led to a completely unseen direction because Anno wanted to try something new, a story where you do have a morale via the characters (Asuka: don't believe that you can do everything by yourself. Shinji: don't close yourself to others, even when what they have to say is unpleasant or painful), but without a deeper message directly pointed at part of the audience.
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Postby kuribo-04 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 8:02 am

The greatest Evageeks minds have been discussing the character motivations and meanings of Evangelion for many years now. If you think what's been discussed over the years here is simple, then i'm a cockroach compared to you. There still isn't and probably won't be any agreement on a lot of stuff. There're vague inconsistencies that support theories/arguements one time, and other inconsistencies that discredit them the next time. Don't get me wrong I think it's wonderful that the show inspires such scrutiny from fans, but the realist in me believes it was accidental.

Of course it takes years. There are things in Eva that I could never explain with words, even though I have my thoughts on them. And things that I could include in a work of my own and couldn't explain either.
Shinji: "Sooner or later I'll be betrayed... And they'll leave me. Still... I want to meet them again, because I believe my feelings at that time were real."
Ryuko: "I'm gonna knock ya on your asses!"
-Asuka: THINK IN GERMAN!!! -Shinji: Öh... Baumkuchen...
Hayashida: "As game developers, our work is special. All of us here can put smiles on very many people's faces with our work."
"In any case, it (Kill la Kill) is the greatest work of fiction ever written and should be taught in schools." -Squigsquasher
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Postby Ispellnogood » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:35 pm

Didn't Anno explicitly denied that EoE was a "Fuck You" to the otakus, but rather him wanting to convey the message that they shouldn't isolate themselves in their little bubble (be it personal or via a fandom) and to don't be afraid to meet new people?


That sounds too sugar-coated to me, like it's something the EoE people had prepared when the film was released. There've been anime that convey that message to the audience/otaku better than EoE. They're nowhere near as vicious or convoluted either.

If I was Anno, I'd say the same thing too. Saying that a film is an FU to the target audience, I think would probably be a bad thing for the film and the directors artistic cred.


For me Rebuild is simply a retelling of the core story of Eva, then led to a completely unseen direction because Anno wanted to try something new, a story where you do have a morale via the characters (Asuka: don't believe that you can do everything by yourself. Shinji: don't close yourself to others, even when what they have to say is unpleasant or painful), but without a deeper message directly pointed at part of the audience.


For me Rebuild is still an FU to otaku, but specificaly Eva otaku. The message is to only Shinji/Eva fans: This is what happens when you immerse in a Eva dreamworld, this is what happens pursue the eva waifu Ayanami. I don't think Asuka has any message attributed to her, she's the girl that you could of been with, but didn't because your immersed an eva dreamworld, she has grown and is now digusted by you. The pleasant disposition of the wille bunch, probably represented how people look at otaku's, and to maybe make people route for Gendo. Gendo was clearly pandered in Rebuild, actually around 2.0 time I started thinking of him as Ganno. I think that this pampering of Gendo is consistant throughout Evangelion animation history.

For me Q was a bitter and hypocritical pill to swallow. This was me 15 seconds after watching it,
:| :huh: :irked: :irked: :irked: "An hour and a half insult to fans, from a guy in Gendo cosplay, you ungrateful toehead".

(FACE REALITY)

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Postby Chuckman » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:37 pm

It may not be a "fuck you" but it definitely trades on shock value. EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor.
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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:48 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor.

And Chuckman dispense yet another of his pearls of infinite wisdom, I will right now sig this for the posterity and future generations!
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Ispellnogood » Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:27 pm

Drill Instructor?

Zip down those TROUSERS!

Whip out that TACKLE!

Now STROKE! STROKE! STROKE! STROKE!

FASTER!

FAASSTER!

You don't want to be interupted by someone because you were to slow to finish, do you?

Sir no sir.

You don't want her to wake up and see you chugging your chicken, do you?

Sir no sir.

Then FASTER!

hmmm.

Clean youselves off.

Zip up those TROUSERS!

Now CHOKE THAT GIRL!

STOP!

Face Me!

Your DISGUSTING!

Now MAGGOTS What you have learnt here today, should help you.

I think EoTV could be seen as this, Gendo/anime director "This is the world you wished for isn't it Otaku/Shinji?"

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Postby Ray » Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:11 pm

Image

Heres the original concept art for Gendo I mention BTW.
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