Who gives Rei-Q her orders

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Who gives Rei-Q her orders

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:54 pm

This is at first glance an almost absurd question, but 3.0 doesn't actually make this all that easy to answer definitely.

Just who is the one giving Rei-Q her orders? Does she accept them a particular person or entity, or from anyone at all? In particular, who ordered her to cut off Mark.06's head?

The order in question  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg]R3-33_C1256_d.jpg[/wkimg]
[wkimg]R3-33_C1257.jpg[/wkimg]

Rei I was ordered to.

1) The obvious answer is of course Gendo. But there is no evidence that Gendo has any connection to Rei-Q whatsoever. The two never speak, and are only once in the same area. In particular, Gendo does not seem to be paying any visits to Rei-Q's tank.

2) The next most obvious candidate is then Seele But if Seele are giving Rei-Q orders, then why bother hijacking Mark.09 with a "program" after she carries it out? Why not just have the program do everything from the beginning?

3) The two most obvious candidates out of the way, I'd like to introduce some "left-field" possibilities. The first, and most unlikely, is Shinji. There's a suggestion earlier in the film that Rei is receptive to Shinji giving her orders, and he may have ordered her to put on clothes when he first goes to speak with her. But since Shinji was hardly aware that Rei-Q was even going down to Central Dogma, this seems extremely unlikely.

4) Kaworu is another possibility, though we never see the two interact. Another difficulty here is that he never gives her further instructions as the situation changes, nor asks for her help as Shinji pulls out the spears. It doesn't seem that he would be in charge of her.

5) Lastly, I'd like to consider one final -- "out there" possibility. What if Rei-Q was taking her orders -- this order -- from Rei-II.
A wild Rei-II appears  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C0826.jpg[/wkimg]
[wkimg width=400]Eva3-33 C0827.jpg[/wkimg]
[wkimg width=400]eva3-33_C0828.jpg[/wkimg]
[wkimg width=400]eva3-33_C0829.jpg[/wkimg]

Apart from Shinji, This is the only other character who Rei-Q "interacts" with prior to the final battle at all. But since I have absolutely no theory under which this would make sense, I'll leave this one hanging in the fan-wankery pantry untii someone eats it or it begins to ripen.

Anyway, I thought that exploring this simple topic might stimulate some thinking.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:11 pm

I'm inclined to Occam this one and say it's Gendo. Now, out of the fanwankery you introduced, I prefer the Rei II theory over the others. However, considering we haven't even solved the mystery of the appearing Rei, it's just an interesting unknown.
Last edited by Nuclear Lunchbox on Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:39 pm

IMO, Gendo makes the most sense unless we're given reason in Final to believe otherwise. 3.0 Rei said herself to Shinji that she "waits for orders" at Nerv, which I naturally assumed meant retrieving Shinji from Wille and later decapitating Mark.06.
Last edited by Sailor Star Dust on Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sorrow » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:43 pm

I think Rei-Q was considered an "early" type or something; if that were the case it doesn't seem unlikely that Gendo would become increasingly detached with the Reis and could simply brief them on their purpose, what they are expected to do and leave it up to them to see it through. That could explain why you don't see Gendo interact with this Rei - though I do think it is a rather pointless thing to consider when she's very obviously working for him; perhaps the reason why the most obvious answer is Gendo is because there really isn't any other answer to consider.

I don't recall Kaworu interacting with Gendo and yet we know they were supposed to be in cahoots. We already know Rei brought Shinji to the NERV ruins to meet Gendo and get involved with his plan - there really isn't any reason to assume it may be someone else directing her.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:43 pm

Something like Rei II giving the order, while is completely and mind-glowingly awesome, doesn’t seem like something that Gendo would see as “Going as expected,” which he comments as everything actually is living up to his expectations.

Seeing as how Rei being ordered to decapitate Mark.06 was within Gendo’s expectations, I would assume that it is actually Gendo giving the orders. I seriously cannot imagine Gendo expecting Rei II to give Rei Q orders, nor do I except the orders themselves that Rei II give Rei Q to fall within Gendo’s expectations.

Both of those things being said, I do wonder why we don’t see Gendo spending time with Rei Q. I mean, both Jo and Ha, whether they’re using recycled scenes from NGE or creating entirely new scenes, always make an attempt to show some interaction between Gendo and Rei. The lack thereof in Q is strange, but then Q also makes a deliberate effort to show as much of the series from Shinji’s perspective as possible, deviating only to establish Misato’s new role and emotional struggles in Willie, set up that Fuyutsuki might be deviating from Gendo’s plan, the appearance of Rei II and showcase any interaction important to understanding any of the fight scenes in the movie.

Also, seeing as how the scenes where Fuyutsuki is questioning Gendo is the only time in the film that it deviates from Shinji’s perspective after he’s been brought into Nerv, I would suggest that only the scenes in Nerv that establish a deviance from Gendo’s plan area included in the film despite Shinji’s ignorance to them. Anything we’re not show happening in Nerv, I would suggest, is still going according to plan. This means that the only two things that might go against Gendo’s plan would be the appearance of Rei II and Fuyutsuki’s quiet betrayal. If I were to expect anything from FINAL, I expect the consequences of these things to escalate in FINAL in ways not entirely established in Q.

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Postby AuraTwilight » Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:26 pm

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Postby Bagheera » Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:40 pm

I thought it was obviously Fuyu. I mean, we don't see that, but he's Gendo's operations guy, so . . . :shrug:
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:54 pm

View Original PostSorrow wrote:That could explain why you don't see Gendo interact with this Rei - though I do think it is a rather pointless thing to consider when she's very obviously working for him; perhaps the reason why the most obvious answer is Gendo is because there really isn't any other answer to consider.
While I agree that Gendo is the most likely candidate, I think there is sufficient reason to suspect Seele as the one either giving Rei-Q orders or who are responsible for her creation.

Mari's words to Rei-Q  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg]File:R3-33 C1170.jpg[/wkimg] [wkimg]File:R3-33 C1171.jpg[/wkimg]
Mari: Seele's fill-in pilot, you can hear me, right?
You should get out of there before you turn into an Adams' Vessel.
Rei No. That is not what I was ordered.

Rei-Q is identified with Seele in 3.0, and never with Gendo. It's not entirely unreasonable to suspect her orders come from them.

Although, that said, Gendo says that Seele have remained silent, so perhaps this is entirely a moot point, especially in light of your points about Kaworu and Rei's prior orders.

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Also, seeing as how the scenes where Fuyutsuki is questioning Gendo is the only time in the film that it deviates from Shinji’s perspective after he’s been brought into Nerv, I would suggest that only the scenes in Nerv that establish a deviance from Gendo’s plan area included in the film despite Shinji’s ignorance to them. Anything we’re not show happening in Nerv, I would suggest, is still going according to plan. This means that the only two things that might go against Gendo’s plan would be the appearance of Rei II and Fuyutsuki’s quiet betrayal.

An interesting idea on the Gendo/Fuyustuki scenes. The difficulty here though is that Fuyutsuki tells Gendo of his intention to give the infodump to Shinji beforehand -- and this infordump becomes one of the key, if not central scenes of the film.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Aug 18, 2014 8:18 pm

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:Fuyutsuki tells Gendo of his intention to give the infodump to Shinji beforehand


Just curious: where? (Quotes/images of the scene, if possible, please?) I don't remember that exchange happening between them in the scenes they're alone together.
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Postby _-SAMWIDGE-_ » Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:08 am

When it comes to the lack of interaction between Rei-Q and Gendo, if we work under the assumption that, as Rei-Q is part of the 'Ayanami Series', there is an indefinite amount of other Reis. Perhaps the lack of interaction between Gendo and Rei-Q is simply because he fails to see the need in connecting with one of an army of Reis who do his bidding, or to go further, that he has lost value in any single Rei model who is just a 'shadow' of the original. In this case, wouldn't it be plausible that Gendo merely gives her orders, with their relationship remaining as strictly business with 'give orders' and 'follow orders'?
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:43 am

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Just curious: where? (Quotes/images of the scene, if possible, please?) I don't remember that exchange happening between them in the scenes they're alone together.

Fuyutsuki all but states that he is going to tell Shinji about Gendo when the two speak about Kaworu showing Shinji the outside world
3.0 Gendo/Fuyutsuki 2nd conversation  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg]File:R3-33 C0821B.jpg[/wkimg]
Fuyutsuki:
Seele's boy has contacted the Third Boy.
He showed him the conditions outside, it seems.
I wonder how he'll cope with it.
Are you sure about this, Ikari?

Gendo:
We'll rewrite Seele's scenario.
Everything in existence is but a tool for that purpose.

Fuyutsuki:
So you're saying that your son wouldn't benefit from seeing how you live?
I'll have to disagree.
[wkimg]File:R3-33 C0821F.jpg[/wkimg]
[wkimg]File:R3-33 C0821G.jpg[/wkimg]

Either Gendo is avoiding the topic of Shinji, or Fuyutsuki seems to hinting that it would be better for the ultimate outcome of their plans if Shinji was informed at least a little. This might hint at Shinji being given ultimate power or a final critical decision in Final; perhaps Fuyutsuki is preparing him for it. Then again, it could simply be Fuyutsuki's conscience calling.

View Original Post_-SAMWIDGE-_ wrote:Perhaps the lack of interaction between Gendo and Rei-Q is simply because he fails to see the need in connecting with one of an army of Reis who do his bidding, or to go further, that he has lost value in any single Rei model who is just a 'shadow' of the original.
Rei-Q's lack of a soul probably has the most to do with it. There's also a possibility that she is Seele's instrument, and perhaps under orders to stay away from Gendo. Though to be honest, I'm increasingly unsure of just how antagonistic the relationship between Seele and Gendo really is in 3.0.
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Postby ElMariachi » Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:08 pm

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:While I agree that Gendo is the most likely candidate, I think there is sufficient reason to suspect Seele as the one either giving Rei-Q orders or who are responsible for her creation.

Mari's words to Rei-Q  SPOILER: Show

[wkimg]File:R3-33 C1170.jpg[/wkimg] [wkimg]File:R3-33 C1171.jpg[/wkimg]
Mari: Seele's fill-in pilot, you can hear me, right?
You should get out of there before you turn into an Adams' Vessel.
Rei No. That is not what I was ordered.

Rei-Q is identified with Seele in 3.0, and never with Gendo. It's not entirely unreasonable to suspect her orders come from them.

Although, that said, Gendo says that Seele have remained silent, so perhaps this is entirely a moot point, especially in light of your points about Kaworu and Rei's prior orders.

Mari could also simply be referring to the fact that she pilots the Mark.09, an Eva created by SEELE judging by the SEELE Dummy Program and the fact they seem to label their creations "Mark.XX" (see the Mark.06 and Mark.04 with the IPEA logo, an organization from the UN and thus under SEELE's control)

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:Rei-Q's lack of a soul probably has the most to do with it. There's also a possibility that she is Seele's instrument, and perhaps under orders to stay away from Gendo. Though to be honest, I'm increasingly unsure of just how antagonistic the relationship between Seele and Gendo really is in 3.0.

I think that it's much more simple than that: as Fuyu said, Rei is preserved inside EVA-01 alongside Yui, meaning that all the other Ayanami created since then have nothing to do with Rei II except having a similar body, so Gendo probably don't see any reason to try to get close to them.
They are tools of meat mean to fulfill their task and be thrown away once they're used, simply as that.

The fact there's something weird with their soul probably also served to reinforce Gendo's belief that he would be wasting time trying to "interact with such creature" in any way that isn't strictly business-like.
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