Geofront/Moon Stuff

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby monitoradiation » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:56 pm

@El:

I thought the black moon was the thing that Kaworu showed Shinji? Was I mistaken? It just looked like it froze over from being stagnant.

When i first watched 3.33 i thought the chalice was a crucible - and the way that the outer ridges was moving it appeared like it was metaphorically grinding up all existing life into raw materials to make anew.

I was so creeped out.
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Postby Mbryo » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:41 am

In answer to the earlier posts, I doubt that Shinji and Kaworu were standing outside the wall of the inverted-pyramid thing when they were looking down at the scenery. The wall they are standing outside is definately just a flat wall, not the outer wall of a pyramid.
The Eva cages and other subterranean NERV structures must have also rose up along with the pyramid and the black moon, and is now probably on or above ground level. That's where Shinji and Kaworu are playing the piano together, and that's where Shinji, Kaworu, Rei, Fuyu and Gendo are. The wall was probably built for protection after the parts of the headquarters that used to be underground completely became exposed. The original NERV headquarters building in the inverted pyramid-thing is probably abandoned.
The bizarre thing is, when Shinji sees the ruins of the Headquarters for the first time, where the hell are they coming down from? where are they going? Where the hell was that hospital room?
Also another thing I noticed in that scene was that the original NERV Headqaurters building seemed to be an extension of the surface, not some artificially built building.
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Postby FluffyBunny » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:14 pm

View Original PostMbryo wrote: The wall they are standing outside is definately just a flat wall, not the outer wall of a pyramid.

I kept watching the scene over and over. At some point the wall appears sloped (the crane that's attached to the wall seems to go up at an angle), but at some other times it just looks vertical. So I'm not sure which I should go with.

The original NERV headquarters building in the inverted pyramid-thing is probably abandoned.

That is a very interesting possibility. I have not thought of that!

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Postby ElMariachi » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:26 am

I think that it's a case of deceptive perspective : it may not look like it, but the inverted pyramid is actually freaking huge!

To give you an idea, the ruins of the NERV pyramid and its pool are each bigger than an Evangelion(which is 80 meter tall) and are so deep at the bottom of the altar that the sun never reaches it!
And don't forget that neo-NERV installations are also manufacturing MP-EVAs and the equipment for them(pallet rifles, transport trains...), and all of this fits inside the pyramid.

So taking a look at the inverted pyramid, it's perfectly possible that the medium sized craters have roughly the size of an Evangelion, 80 meters wide!
SPOILER: Show
[wkimg]File:Eva3-33 C0812B pyramid.jpg[/wkimg]

From here the fact we don't see any of the infrastructure Shinji and Kaworu used(the old catwalk and the crane) wouldn't be that surprising, nor the fact that the wall looked flat.

---

Now that I'm thinking about it, seeing the size of the inverted pyramid and how thin is the Main Shaft compared to it, don't you find weird the concentric pattern the clouds around the pyramid take?
It looks like the place always had a sort of magnetic or energy shield around it, it could be that said shield also maintain it floating and that the Main shaft actually don't support the structure, but the contrary : that the Main Shaft hangs from the inverted pyramid!

That shield could also protect the new HQ from external attacks, explaining why Misato didn't dropped EVA-02' and EVA-08 from the Wunder and directly inside the pyramid as soon as Shinji escaped with Rei Q and instead waited for Gendo to make the first move.

That would also explain why Shinji can breathe in the open ruins of NERV HQ while he need an hazmat suit when walking outside. That means that the air directly around the inverted pyramid is toxic, but then why can he, Rei Q and Asuka breath at ground level at the end of the movie? Is that toxic air area limited to just around the inverted pyramid? RAAAAH it's so confusing! :um:



View Original Postmonitoradiation wrote:@El:

I thought the black moon was the thing that Kaworu showed Shinji? Was I mistaken? It just looked like it froze over from being stagnant.

When i first watched 3.33 i thought the chalice was a crucible - and the way that the outer ridges was moving it appeared like it was metaphorically grinding up all existing life into raw materials to make anew.

I was so creeped out.

Nope, what Kaworu showed Shinji was what was left of the Tokyo-3 landscape after Third Impact(remember that neo-NERV's HQ is well above ground level)

And because an image is worth a thousand words, that the Black Moon :
SPOILER: Show
Emerging from underground during Fourth Impact :
[wkimg]File:Eva3-33 C1417B blackmoon.jpg[/wkimg]

Crashing on the ground after 4I was averted, you can compare with the surrounding mountains to see just how huge it is :
[wkimg]File:Eva3-33 C1477 blackmoon.jpg[/wkimg]
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Postby Sajuuk_Khar » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:56 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Now that I'm thinking about it, seeing the size of the inverted pyramid and how thin is the Main Shaft compared to it, don't you find weird the concentric pattern the clouds around the pyramid take?
It looks like the place always had a sort of magnetic or energy shield around it, it could be that said shield also maintain it floating and that the Main shaft actually don't support the structure, but the contrary : that the Main Shaft hangs from the inverted pyramid!

When I first saw the pyramid, and the clouds surrounding it, I was reminded of the halos evas get, and the double halos Wunder gets it it starts flying.

Always seemed like they were referencing that or something similar.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:25 am

Now that you mention it, those circular clouds are very suspicous. I suppose they were overlooked because that whole scene is full of bizarre stuff.
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Postby Dual1ty » Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:52 am

I've read all of this thread now and it's been enlightening to say the least. I'm still processing a lot of it.

One thought that occurs to me though: Is it possible the L-Barrier is both a defensive mechanism and also what is keeping New Nerv HQ up in the air? The atmospheric disturbances, the fact that the HQ has clearly been shelled in the past (but this isn't ongoing - perhaps it's now ineffective?) and Asuka saying the L-Barrier is too strong while she's on the red Earth around the Geofront may line up with this?

Could be stupid though. I think it just came to me because I thought of it as Levitation-Barrier. But realistically it probably stands for Lilin or something. It's also hard to tell if it's Nerv HQ or the impact ground zero/Lillith that is causing this 'barrier' since they all kind of exist on the same spot?

Someone's going to destroy me with a link to something I don't know I'm sure. :P

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Postby thezeppo1138 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:28 pm

Does anyone think the Black Moon looks like a chalice/grail. It's never looked like a screw or entry plug to me and makes more since in terms of imagery for the series. Does anyone else think that? The thing is like a rorschach, we keep seeing different things.

Keep up the good work, guys! :D

EDIT: Ok, I saw another poster refer to it that way. Sorry. Thanks guys.

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Postby Signer » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:00 pm

Is it only me, or the angle of cross rupture relative to Mount Fuji in Q is different from one shown in the end of 2.0?
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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:09 pm

^
Mmmmmh... you seems to be right :

In 2.0 :
SPOILER: Show
[wkimg]File:Eva2-22 C1856 vortex.jpg[/wkimg]

One of the angles is pointing to Mt Fuji

In 3.0 :
SPOILER: Show
[wkimg]Eva3-33_C0812B_comp.jpg[/wkimg]

No more chasm pointing toward the mountain.

Could be a simple overlooking from the animation team though, as I really doubt that they had the time and resources to fill these giant chasm before Third Impact proper. Like Asuka magically changing her position at the top of Shinji's entry plug at the end of Q.
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Postby riffraff11235 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:24 pm

View Original PostElMariachi wrote:Like Asuka magically changing her position at the top of Shinji's entry plug at the end of Q.

I know it's a bit of a tangent, but was this discussed anywhere? I just reviewed the scene and I don't see this "magical" change in position. Everything looks fine.
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Postby ElMariachi » Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:29 pm

We talk about it here :
http://forum.evageeks.org/post/671919/Eva-13-and-Shinji-who-was-really-in-control/#671919

Long story short, Asuka's position while she's lecturing Shinji is at the top of the plug, but the plug's seat and the color at her feet when we have a close up of the inside indicates that she's on the other side of the hatch.
That was probably an error from the animation team.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby TMBounty_Hunter » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:21 am

The groundwork book seems like it will give a little bit extra to talk about



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Postby Rei IV » Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:39 am

Holy shit, it does look like fucking teeth! Freaking creepy. To think that some where speculating it was exactly that!

:cringe:

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:14 pm

God damn, we were right about the teeth. Maybe the book will tell us if the giant pit is an eye, as well.

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Postby Signer » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:15 pm

Not sure if it should be here or in Impact Mechanics, but anyway.

Kaworu said, that because of Lilith's barrier, Lilith's Chamber was untouched for 14 years. Such isolation will be very helpful for understanding events around Third Impact, so I really want it to be true. Cracks, such as one, from where Mari was shooting, and ones, through which Mari and Asuka got to the Chamber and got back to the surface, may have been blocked by the barrier same way as main shaft. So, are there reasons not to believe Kaworu?
And if barrier is indeed spherical, were Failures of Infinity, that are seen, when awakened EVA-13 flies trough the entrance to the Chamber, outside that barrier?
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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:52 pm

The barrier was built after Lilith's awakening and the clusterfuck that happened with her, Mark.06, the 12th Angel and the FoIs, Kaworu even states that the Chamber was the epicenter of Third Impact(something that contradicts the claim that Shinji's N3I is what destroyed the world)

As for the barrier's shape, we don't know anything about it's shape or how it was build(the way it disintegrated in cubes was really weird), we don't know if it covered all the cracks in Lilith's Chamber, or even if there was a crack to directly access Lilith's Chamber(if that's the case, then Kaworu's claim that they needed a dual-piloted Eva because of the seal was a lie)

And the FoIs we see flying during Fourth Impact are probably the ones that were lying around Tokyo-3, seeing how EVA-13 obliterated the main shaft when it flew after it's awakning, I doubt there many FoIs left in Lilith's Chamber.
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Kensuke is a military otaku who, at one point, is shown creepily taking pictures of girls to sell. He would clearly fit right in as an animator at Studio Gainax. -- Compiling_Autumn
EoTV is a therapist, EoE is a drill instructor. -- Chuckman
Seriously, that is the most fananked theory I've ever heard, more than Mari being Marty McFly travelling through time to keep her parents (Asushin) together. -- Jäeger

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Postby Signer » Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:22 pm

Rewatched that moment and it seems the FoIs, which I meant, are from the main shaft: [url]http://i1.minus.com/ibdUnImMsiFn8E.png[/url]
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Postby andreh » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:49 pm

View Original PostSigner wrote:[url]http://i1.minus.com/ibdUnImMsiFn8E.png[/url]

Wow, I never noticed Mark09 over there !

And the blue light is strange to me, but maybe it's just 'decoration'
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Postby Giji Shinka » Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:24 am

View Original PostSigner wrote:Rewatched that moment and it seems the FoIs, which I meant, are from the main shaft: [url]http://i1.minus.com/ibdUnImMsiFn8E.png[/url]

I really love the level of detail in this film! (Both artistic/plot wise)
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