The Eva Monkey wrote:Episode 20: Shinji's clothes mistakenly replaced by a plugsuit.
Episode 23: Rei cries in her entry plug, the tears fall from her eyes. In a liquid environment, this would not be possible.

Quiddity wrote:Regarding the plugsuit, I'd say they probably changed the dialogue after realizing how they screwed up with the animation. Thats one of the more ridiculous ones.

While I do agree that they had Shinji manifesting a plug suit in order to cover up their animation error, it seems to have turned out to be what Bob Ross used to call a, "happy accident", because they were able to re-use it in EOE when Asuka manifested bandages when she reembodied herself.

As for crying in a liquid environment, I used to think that they simply ignored the LCL in this and most other scenes inside the entry plug out of convenience. However, there is a powerful new theory HERE that suggests that this is no error at all. The short version is that LCL become gaseous when the Eva is in operation. This is most evident in EP. 3 when the LCL seems to be absent while Shinji is fighting, return when he lets Toji and Kensuke into the entry plug, and then vanish again when Shinji resumes the battle. Upon watching these scenes again after reading this thread, I decided that Dr. Nick was probably correct.

The Eva Monkey wrote:If the Angels were trying to return to Adam, then why didn't they attack Germany? The spawn of Adam wouldn't want to merge with Lilith, so why attack Nerv?

Because they couldn't find Adam. The reason they shrunk Adam into an embryo, even though they knew that it would kill billions of people, was to keep an angel from finding him and killing everyone permenently. So the Angels went for Lilith, either because they couldn't tell the difference, or because they thought that she might be able to do the job anyway. As soon as Kaji brought Adam into the open, in order to deliver him to Gendo, they began to genuinely go after Adam.

As for Kaji saying Lilith was Adam, I see no reason to think he didn't believe it was true.

I'm sorry but I just can't buy that LCL turns into gas idea. First, why does the entry plug boil when unit 01 is struck by Ramiel's particle beam? Second, I seriously doubt Anno would simply leave such a piece of information unsaid. Besides, the only time you would ever notice that they were in a liquid enviroment is when the plug is opened or it suffers extreme heat. It is extremely difficult to tell if a small closed space is filled with your water if your not actually in it.

thewayneiac wrote:As for crying in a liquid environment, I used to think that they simply ignored the LCL in this and most other scenes inside the entry plug out of convenience. However, there is a powerful new theory HERE that suggests that this is no error at all. The short version is that LCL become gaseous when the Eva is in operation. This is most evident in EP. 3 when the LCL seems to be absent while Shinji is fighting, return when he lets Toji and Kensuke into the entry plug, and then vanish again when Shinji resumes the battle. Upon watching these scenes again after reading this thread, I decided that Dr. Nick was probably correct.

In episode 3, Kensuke exclaims, "there's water in here!". Not to mention LCL turning into gas would ruin some of the benefits of it.

Phaze wrote:

thewayneiac wrote:As for crying in a liquid environment, I used to think that they simply ignored the LCL in this and most other scenes inside the entry plug out of convenience. However, there is a powerful new theory HERE that suggests that this is no error at all. The short version is that LCL become gaseous when the Eva is in operation. This is most evident in EP. 3 when the LCL seems to be absent while Shinji is fighting, return when he lets Toji and Kensuke into the entry plug, and then vanish again when Shinji resumes the battle. Upon watching these scenes again after reading this thread, I decided that Dr. Nick was probably correct.

In episode 3, Kensuke exclaims, "there's water in here!". Not to mention LCL turning into gas would ruin some of the benefits of it.

Um, I cant help but wonder if you took the time to read that thread. Anyway, here's the scene where Toji and Kensuke get in the entry plug; as you can see, the plug is full of liquid when they get in, but it turns to a gaseous phase once Shinji re-synchs with the EVA...

Um, I cant help but wonder if you took the time to read that thread. Anyway, here's the scene where Toji and Kensuke get in the entry plug; as you can see, the plug is full of liquid when they get in, but it turns to a gaseous phase once Shinji re-synchs with the EVA...

I don't see that :? . It just looks to me that as soon as Shinji re-synchs, the lights turn on and they see Shinji holding of Shamshel, hence the shocked expressions.

You could also say that as soon as the people inside the LCL learn how to breathe, the animators just switch it to clear so its easier for the viewers to see.

I'm sorry but I just can't buy that LCL turns into gas idea. First, why does the entry plug boil when unit 01 is struck by Ramiel's particle beam? Second, I seriously doubt Anno would simply leave such a piece of information unsaid. Besides, the only time you would ever notice that they were in a liquid enviroment is when the plug is opened or it suffers extreme heat. It is extremely difficult to tell if a small closed space is filled with your water if your not actually in it.

I agree. This seems like something that Annon wouldn't have left out. Besides, LCL is Link Connect Liquid. Not a mention of gas in there.

I always chocked up the whole tear thing to water (salt water) being more dense then LCL. If you notice, when the tear lands, it doesn't splatter (I think, I'll have to rewatch). That would suggest that there was another substance holding it together when it fell.

Mr.Guy wrote:

Um, I cant help but wonder if you took the time to read that thread. Anyway, here's the scene where Toji and Kensuke get in the entry plug; as you can see, the plug is full of liquid when they get in, but it turns to a gaseous phase once Shinji re-synchs with the EVA...

I don't see that :? . It just looks to me that as soon as Shinji re-synchs, the lights turn on and they see Shinji holding of Shamshel, hence the shocked expressions.

I think maybe you're missing the point of these two shots:




Toji and Kensuke are covering up because they find themselves underwater, but then they are suprised to find themselves breathing 'air'... If they were having to breath liquid, their reaction would be a much more sustained panic (witness Shinji's reaction to the disagreeable process in Ep01)

Toji and Kensuke are covering up because they find themselves underwater, but then they are suprised to find themselves breathing 'air'... If they were having to breath liquid, their reaction would be a much more sustained panic (witness Shinji's reaction to the disagreeable process in Ep01)

I know what you meant, and what pictures were in question. But it doesn't look like (at least to me) that they're surprised by the LCL turning into gas. It looks more like they're gazing at Shinji trying to hold off the Angel.

The next shot shows them looking at Shinji, which leads me to believe that that is what they're staring at.

Plus, I know this is a liquid we don't know all about... but turning from liquid to gas just like that? That doesn't really seem possible... I would think the Gainax would want to keep some believibility in it.

Occum's Razer. Enough said.

[edit] You still didn't answer my question, why does the entry plug appear to boil when Ramiel attacks unit 01 with it's particle beam? [/edit]

[edit2] Those two pictures don't really prove anything. All thats happening is that they just start breathing in the lcl and no longer have a need to hold their nose/cover their mouth. The lighting difference is because the entry plug system had to be turned off in order to eject the plug and allow them to enter.[/edit2]

Shin-seiki wrote:Um, I cant help but wonder if you took the time to read that thread.

Must have skipped the word "return."

Anyway, why are you going to all the trouble of explaining this illogical idea?
LCL has many functions, including absorbing some of the impact that otherwise the pilot would have took, turning it into gas would ruin that, and as Dave said, why would they keep such a simple piece of information from us? I could go on if you like.
This has serioulsly strayed from topic...

It's just a cartoon !!!

If you think about it, all living creatures are basicaly LCL !!!

I have read most of that original thread and Dr. Nick's idea that the Eva reverts the lcl from gas to liquid during an attack is, to put it bluntly, stupid. Once again, please refer to Occum's Razer. I don't see any reason to believe lcl turns it into anything but a liquid. I see no evidence in the series and I see no reason for GAINAX to have made it that way. http://homepage.mac.com/csf2860/Plug/Plug.html The change you perceive is a little thing I like to call a lightbulb turning on and off....

[edit] Oh, on that whole "chaning it's molecular arrangement" thing Dr. Nick was talking about: Chaning a liquid to a gas does not effect the liquids molecular arrangement... it simply spreads them out. [/edit]

Regarding the crying in the LCL, they screwed up. They screwed up without officially screwing up because it's convenient. Perhaps LCL is simply like Gatorade: you'll notice that it's easier to chug than water, but it is not so drastically less dense that you could cry solid tears in it. It's just easier to breathe, tell yourself that. I accept it, and I am a better person for it. 8)

Now let's all have some pie.