What is the main point of contention between Seele and Gendo/Nerv? I ask this as it seems Gendo wants instrumentality so he can be reunited with Yui and Seele want instrumentality also.

Apologies if I'm missing something obvious! Any help would be cool, thanks :)

I've been disecting and rewatching Evangelion for nearly six years now, and somehow, that either never crossed my mind or slipped it.
I rewatched the series last week, and couldn't really come up with a good answer, who cares who started Thrid Impact so long as it did get started?
Why DID Seele give Gendo such a hard time?

Was it because they thought he was going about it the wrong way, or had something totally different in mind?

Why was theri so much tension? THey wanted the same thing Right?

They never really explain it. What I think is that Gendou was taking his time until the right moment arrived and Seele wanted it quicker. Until they thought he was betraying them. That's my theory.

Gendo and SEELE had two different scenarios for Third Impact. SEELE wanted makind to be united as one, in order to further our evolution. Gendo simply wished to be reunited with Yui, who, since she had been absorbed by Eva-01, was not technically dead. I'm not positive on what Gendo had planned, little reference to it was made in the series, but it's clearly different form whatever SEELE planned on. All I know for sure is that he planned on initiating Third Impact through Rei, where he would have control over what happened.

I may have read something on what his version of Third Impact called for, but I can't seem to find it.

i read once somewhere that Keel wanted to start the Third impact because he is in fact Cain and therefore he cannot die....the only way he can obtain peace is to return humanity to the state of beggining.....
Gendou on the other hand wants to be re-united with Yui, but in the process he wants to become a god with Yui at he's side....
it is my guess that each scenario would have a different outcome for humanity and that is the reason why keel/seele wants to control third impact

belial11737 wrote:i read once somewhere that Keel wanted to start the Third impact because he is in fact Cain and therefore he cannot die....the only way he can obtain peace is to return humanity to the state of beggining.....

You're thinking of the wandering Jew, which was not really canon bible material, in my opinion.

belial11737 wrote:i read once somewhere that Keel wanted to start the Third impact because he is in fact Cain and therefore he cannot die....the only way he can obtain peace is to return humanity to the state of beggining.....

I herd that too.
My guess is that if Gendo had had his way that it would have been him and Yui lying on the beach at the end.

Phaze wrote:

belial11737 wrote:i read once somewhere that Keel wanted to start the Third impact because he is in fact Cain and therefore he cannot die....the only way he can obtain peace is to return humanity to the state of beggining.....

You're thinking of the wandering Jew, which was not really canon bible material, in my opinion.

Lilith isnt either....

Thanks guys, these are all cool explanations, I guess Gendo's need to control the scenario his own way/with him in control would rub with Seele. These ideas all give more credibility in my mind now to Seeles invasion of Nerv. Hadn't heard the Cain theory before, very interesting. Cheers :)

Keel is not Cain or the wandering jew, he's just a normal dude. If I remember correctly we see him in a flashback and he looks younger.

For me Seele was the council of powerful old guys trying to avoid death somehow. A popular element, you have a similar council in the Otherland books for instance.

I'm not really sure why Seele needs Gendo, but Gendo needs Seele to provide the resources.

Seele was nothing like that group of rich guys in Otherland. They wanted their lives to end (along with the rest of humanities) because they believed that living only brings about pain and sorrow.

I don't think that Seele wanted death. No offense to you Dave. But it really bothers me when people say this. In my opinion, Seele wanted just what they said they wanted, to evolve to a new form. This may be a little out there but bear with me. Its possible that when everyone turned back into LCL they werent dead. Their physical forms had just become one. Its a really common theme in all sorts of eastern religions. That everyone is just composed of one universal soul, and bodies, and the limitation sof the human mind are what makes it seem like we are seperate entities.

I think Seele wanted to take out the barriers, and become one with everyone... or at least thats part of it.

Seele wanted everybody to become one in order to eliminate the fear in everyone's heart.

Dave's acutally right here.

Call what you want, the evolution of humanity, the assimulation of all minds into one, the bringing together of humanity to eliminate pain, it still means the end (death) of humanity as we know it.

If all our minds where one, even if we evolved to a higher plain, we would not really be considered humans any more.

Seele decided Humanity was at a evoltionary dead end.

They where disastified with what humanity had become and set about tranforming it. Yes the wanted a evolution, but as we saw in EoE, it was a kind of death. The death of that which makes us human. Our seperate minds, and souls. The A.T. Field.

I guess your both right.

I herd that too.
My guess is that if Gendo had had his way that it would have been him and Yui lying on the beach at the end.

that wouldn't nessalarily true.
Would Yui like the fact that all of humanity is gone and her and gendo are all that is left of the world?
i know that id be pissed off at gendo if him and me were all that was left in the world.
also very nasty thoughts come to mind if they were the only ones left to repopulate the earth.

Olin of Xephon wrote:Call what you want, the evolution of humanity, the assimulation of all minds into one, the bringing together of humanity to eliminate pain, it still means the end (death) of humanity as we know it.

Thats true enough. But I think, (and I might be wrong here) lots of people think that everyone exploding into LCL equals dead. The abolition of conciousness. No more soul, no more thinking, no more anything. Which (i think) we can agree, is not what Seele wanted for Instrumentality.