Impact Mechanics

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby Jinroh » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:46 pm

These impacts look like they have nothing in common. During fourth impact it looks like a path leading to another place where that orb is contained. I don't think anything materializes outside of the vortex itself. And nothing is getting "sucked" inside it, it just seems to raise the black moon in the sky.

It's really disturbing to have 3 very different impacts shown in the 3 movies. And I am still wondering why second impact is still in a suspended animation, while the 2 other ones stopped and disappeared.

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Postby Ramiel² » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:24 pm

View Original PostJinroh wrote:And I am still wondering why second impact is still in a suspended animation, while the 2 other ones stopped and disappeared.


This is also very unsettling for me, every time i try to come up with some idea how the impact is supposed to work, it also has to explain that.

But then again, we didnt see the whole Earth in 3.33, it might have vanished for some reason during those 14 years. Holy shit maybe its even the reason to the environmental changes of the earth that lack a logical reason apart the near third impact from Shinji...

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Postby K40s » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:33 pm

I think they are quite similar, but we get to see 2I from above the vortex, while we see 4I from bellow the vortex. If we were to see 4I from above we'd see the white ball/moon (Lilith's CoG?) materializing like in the 2I animation, if we were to see 2I from bellow we'd see the black ball/moon (Adam's CoG?) in the centre of the vortex like an eclipse of sorts as we see in 4I.

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Postby Giji Shinka » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:45 pm

I don't know if this is said in any thread,(probably is...) but:
I just watched the scene from 2.0 where 2nd impact is happening: Where are Misato and her father standing? (I can see moon-like craters on the ground. Or is it just water waves or something else?)
Last edited by Giji Shinka on Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Ramiel² » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:53 pm

View Original PostK40s wrote:I think they are quite similar, but we get to see 2I from above the vortex, while we see 4I from bellow the vortex. If we were to see 4I from above we'd see the white ball/moon (Lilith's CoG?) materializing like in the 2I animation, if we were to see 2I from bellow we'd see the black ball/moon (Adam's CoG?) in the centre of the vortex like an eclipse of sorts as we see in 4I.


Except that the crosses were different in the 2I compared to the 4I and that near 3I with the Door opened didnt have that "ball" at all, neither from below, nor from above.

Consistency, anno pls.

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Postby Jinroh » Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:54 pm

View Original PostK40s wrote:I think they are quite similar, but we get to see 2I from above the vortex, while we see 4I from bellow the vortex. If we were to see 4I from above we'd see the white ball/moon (Lilith's CoG?) materializing like in the 2I animation, if we were to see 2I from bellow we'd see the black ball/moon (Adam's CoG?) in the centre of the vortex like an eclipse of sorts as we see in 4I.

Agreed, but we see near-third impact from space and nothing much happens...

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Postby ElMariachi » Sun Apr 28, 2013 6:00 pm

Maybe to make appears the "big ball(Chamber of Guf?), an Impact as to involve a "progenitor"?
2I involved ADAM(s), for 4I it was Lilith absorbed inside EVA-13, while N3I, the only one without a "big ball" in sight, was made by EVA-01 absorbing Zeruel, meaning a copy of ADAM/Lilith(if its origins from NGE is till true) and an offsping of ADAM, thus making a "sub-Impact" which didn't invoked the "big ball".

Of course, my theory falls apart if Final reveals that EVA-01 is on of the four ADAMs from 2I...
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Postby K40s » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:30 am

View Original PostRamiel² wrote:Except that the crosses were different in the 2I compared to the 4I and that near 3I with the Door opened didnt have that "ball" at all, neither from below, nor from above.

Consistency, anno pls.
View Original PostJinroh wrote:Agreed, but we see near-third impact from space and nothing much happens...
Maybe that's why it's called near 3rd Impact? the "near" being that it didn't quite get to the point where the CoG manifests itself when Kaworu ruined the party...

Another point is that the Impact in 2.22 didn't involve any Lances at all, just a being getting both fruits (my guess), while 2I and 4I did involve Lances.

As I've said before I think Anno is using NME to showcase all the possible types of Impacts that can happen.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:34 am

View Original PostGiji Shinka wrote:I just watched the scene from 2.0 where 2nd impact is happening: Where are Misato and her father standing? (I can see moon-like craters on the ground. Or is it just water waves or something else?)


Probably at ground zero, like in the original series and the main cast in 2.0. They seem to be right at the feet of the Adams, looking at them spreading their wings.

As for 2I being in suspended animation, there was a theory a while ago that 3I caused 2I to resume and complete itself (and disappear thereafter) in Antarctica. Which would explain the massive climate changes.
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Postby Charsi » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:06 am

View Original PostK40s wrote:Maybe that's why it's called near 3rd Impact? the "near" being that it didn't quite get to the point where the CoG manifests itself when Kaworu ruined the party...


But when Kaworu showed up, the moon was still quite ordinary looking and distant. You can see it behind his descending Eva.

So, something else happened between the spearing and 3.33.

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Postby qu4d » Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:52 am

JUST A THOUGHT

We all know, at the end of 2.22 shit hit the fan, but Kaworu stopped the whole thing with his spear. But... what if he didn't? Like the preview, it might not be canon after all (even if that would suck), since it happened after the credits.

He still might have thrown the spear, but waaaaay later :uhh:

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Postby Warren Peace » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:33 pm

It should be pointed out that in Rebuild, beings have been known to function quite well without a head...

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Postby K40s » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:45 pm

View Original PostCharsi wrote:But when Kaworu showed up, the moon was still quite ordinary looking and distant. You can see it behind his descending Eva.

So, something else happened between the spearing and 3.33.
My point exactly, we didn't get to see it, n3I was stopped before the CoG appeared, then during the time-skip n3I resumed becoming a full 3I causing the moon to go all spinney, we just didn't get to see it.

Also take a look at my previous post where I speculate what happened.
Last edited by K40s on Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Charsi » Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:56 pm

View Original PostK40s wrote:My point exactly, we didn't get to see it, n3I was stopped before the CoG appeared, then during the time-skip n3I resumed becoming a full 3I causing the moon to go all spinney, we just didn't get to see it.

Also take a look at my previous post where I speculate what happened.


My post in that thread is immediately below yours... :)

It's not quite the same level of detail but it essentially posits the same idea - that N3I was resumed.

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Postby Warren Peace » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:40 pm

View Original PostAh Q wrote:Good point. Although, from what we know about the FoIs, is there anything that would indicate they have the same headless-functioning capabilities (or are otherwise similar to) Mark.09?


It's a big question mark, no doubt. I'm just not ready to count anything out just because he/she/it doesn't have a head. Good news for Kaworu I guess :lol:

Anyone have any idea why the town's rubble, like the FOIs themselves, is SOLID red? Tokyo-3 doesn't look just splattered, every inch of every building we see is red.

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Postby Jinroh » Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:57 pm

Because everything was turned into a "core".

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Postby Angel of Will » Thu May 02, 2013 5:34 am

I'm going to guess here as to why Mark 6's fusion with Lilith produced a Rei giant: Mark 6 was mentioned to have been made autonomous, and could have been inserted with a Rei Dummy-Plug. Then it got infected by the 12th Angel, and proceeded to Terminal Dogma being way more successful than any other angel by initiating Third Impact. Why Third Impact? Kaworu said they had started 4th, but Shinji had only gotten to 'Near 3rd', so it's possible that Mark 6's was the definite 3rd.

Also, Gendo decided to keep her head because he's a creep like that. (This might be Anno dissing the otakus as usual, who collect dolls of characters they're obsessed with).
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Postby Monk Ed » Sun May 05, 2013 2:40 am

K40s, what evidence do you have in Rebuild itself to indicate that Eva-01 is a "FoK life form"?
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Postby K40s » Sun May 05, 2013 3:12 am

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:K40s, what evidence do you have in Rebuild itself to indicate that Eva-01 is a "FoK life form"?
n3I in 2.22 itself.

Just think about it, in NME 2.22 when Zeruel eats, absorbs and fuses with both Eva-00 and it's pilot Rei 2, why didn't it cause an Impact? Zeruel being an Angel should have the FoL and by absorbing a Lilin (Rei 2) shouldn't the union of both Fruits have caused an Impact? but it didn't... so neither Rei 2 nor Eva-00 have the FoK.

The actual Impact happened when Eva-01 (which I believe is Lilith's true offspring like in NGE) entered in contact with the Angel.

Also Lilith's legs are missing...

What was Giant Naked White Rei Boobed Zeruel's next move? to go down the Main Shaft after presumably Lilith, or maybe Eva-01? If Zer wanted to go after Lilith why would she stop by in Command Center? she could have rushed down the Main Shaft directly to Lilith... maybe she intended to break into the cages next to Command Center and absorb Eva-01 while she was inactive? if Zer could have gotten the FoK from Eva-01 it would make sense to stop by the cages instead of going all the way down to Lilith.

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Postby Monk Ed » Sun May 05, 2013 4:02 am

View Original PostK40s wrote:Just think about it, in NME 2.22 when Zeruel eats, absorbs and fuses with both Eva-00 and it's pilot Rei 2, why didn't it cause an Impact?

Why should it? New continuity, new rules. It has not been mentioned yet whether a "forbidden union" of Fruits is a necessary or even relevant component of Impacts. The only mentions to impact triggers so far have been 1) Lilith in Jo and 2) the pilots themselves, and distinct from ordinary humans as well, as indicated by this line when Shinji is taken by Unit 09:

00:32:22 {Ritsuko} If they prioritized taking him over Eva-01,
00:32:25 {Ritsuko} it means he still has the potential to be a trigger!


She says that like not just any human will do. And later in the movie, Kaworu says that he is a trigger (and Mari surmises that Shinji is a backup). The pilots themselves are somehow key to the process, and if it were just because they have the FoK then you'd think anyone would do.
The actual Impact happened when Eva-01 (which I believe is Lilith's true offspring like in NGE) entered in contact with the Angel.

Although it's certainly possible, Reichu has pointed out that so far more connections have been made between Eva-01 and the Adams than Eva-01 and Lilith. For example, when Eva-01 goes all Impacty, it starts to look like not just one of the Adams but a particular one of the Adams (if I'm not mistaken).
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