MIA in 3.0

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Guy Nacks
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[SPOILERS] MIA in 3.0

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Postby Guy Nacks » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:08 pm

Discussion of what we believe the fates of the supporting cast to be, namely:
Kaji, Toji, Kensuke, Hikari and Pen-Pen.

Honestly, I think Anno doesn't quite know if he wants the supporting cast to be dead or not. Sure there's implications......but no solid evidence or character just coming out and saying that they died. I'm pretty sure his main thematic goal in 3.0 was to have Shinji totally isolated from anyone who might have shown him love or affection in the past. And I'm pretty damn sure he succeeded.

In the case of Kaji, I'd imagine he disappeared and is still doing his undercover spy thing somewhere, perhaps he went back to a different Nerv Base. (perhaps the one seen at the beginning of 2.0).

Toji, Hikari, Kensuke and Pen Pen.....one possible scenario that comes to mind is that they might be with Kaji who found them after Near Third Impact. I can't think of any other ideas off the top of my head for them, but Sakura being the ONLY one other than Kaworu (and possibly Fuyutsuki in a twisted way) in the film to show kindness doesn't make sense if she's lost EVERYONE she cared about (possibly?) as well due to Shinji's actions in 2.0

Bottom line: if Misato, Ritsuko, the bridge bunnies, Gendo, and Fuyutsuki survived Near Third Impact pretty much at ground zero, It's one HELL of a logical leap to assume that the rest of the supporting cast that were pretty much in the same area are all dead
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And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Postby TheDrmcvey » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:14 pm

I think we'll see Kaji again, and he'll probably have another father son type conversation with Shinji. I wouldn't mind. If he is the character that provides the infodump about the past, I can easily trust him as the character to do so.

As for the others, I'm going to say Toji is still alive, whereas everyone else is probably dead. When Shinji asked Sakura about her brother, she smiled, which leaves me reason to believe he's still alive.
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Postby Guy Nacks » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:30 pm

Also the question that really begs to be answered:

How and why was Toji's shirt recycled to give to Shinji?
That just seemed INCREDIBLY contrived.
Among the people who use the Internet, many are obtuse. Because they are locked in their rooms, they hang on to that vision which is spreading across the world. But this does not go beyond mere ‘data’. Data without analysis [thinking], which makes you think that you know everything. This complacency is nothing but a trap. Moreover, the sense of values that counters this notion is paralyzed by it.

And so we arrive at demagogy. - Hideaki Anno, 1996

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Postby CJD » Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:31 pm

View Original PostTheDrmcvey wrote:I think we'll see Kaji again, and he'll probably have another father son type conversation with Shinji. I wouldn't mind. If he is the character that provides the infodump about the past, I can easily trust him as the character to do so.


Pretty much this. Maybe it's just wishful thinking but I think Kaji's going to be alive, and I think he's going to be at "the place that teaches Shinji hope." I think if Kaji plays a major part in Shinji's development in 4.0 it'll be a nice parallel to his role in NGE, a role he only barely scratched in 2.0. I hope I'm right, he's definitely one of my favorite characters in the show, and I think if anyone is able to forgive/not hate Shinji for 3I it's going to be Kaji.

As for Touji, Kensuke, Hikari, and Penpen... Yea I dunno.

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Postby hui43210 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:04 pm

They very well might be where Asuska is headed to at the end.
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Postby DeadClones » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:22 pm

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:Also the question that really begs to be answered:

How and why was Toji's shirt recycled to give to Shinji?
That just seemed INCREDIBLY contrived.


I'm glad you pointed out what that was. I would have waited till the dvd thinking that Shinji was fretting about losing weight.

I was all like "this eating disorder sidestory hardly seems necessary".
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Postby Eva 04 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:08 am

Kaji might be dead. For the other's,wasnt it confirmed they were killed when pre-third impact happened? Didnt it like kill all the citizens of Tokyo-3? I believe I read that somewhere around here.

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Postby Reichu » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:15 am

It's VERY strongly implied that the Tokyo-3 citizens were put on the sacrificial block to create the red Eva-like beings. In addition to what Kaworu says, we see a close-up of one of the beings literally bursting out of a building -- i.e., it was formed on the spot...

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Postby slothen » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:51 am

They could very well be dead, but unless 3.0 is retconning the shit out of 2.0, it wasn't third impact that did them in, since most of our main characters were standing right there and none of them got tanged.


View Original PostReichu wrote:It's VERY strongly implied that the Tokyo-3 citizens were put on the sacrificial block to create the red Eva-like beings. In addition to what Kaworu says, we see a close-up of one of the beings literally bursting out of a building -- i.e., it was formed on the spot...


Yeah, I couldn't tell what this was because of camrip. Figured there was something to the floor of skulls in terminal dogma, although those skulls are way bigger than human skulls.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:54 am

View Original Postslothen wrote:They could very well be dead, but unless 3.0 is retconning the shit out of 2.0, it wasn't third impact that did them in.

People were even guessing they'd died before 3.0 came out. The shots in 2.0 that appear right after Goo-Rei merges into Eva-01 are critical.

Yeah, I couldn't tell what this was because of camrip.

Going into the camrips pre-loaded up with details from theater viewers helped. :devil:

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Postby slothen » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:08 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:People were even guessing they'd died before 3.0 came out. The shots in 2.0 that appear right after Goo-Rei merges into Eva-01 are critical.


Aside from lots of shots of floating debris, everything looks fine except for 2-3 shot where the ground splits in an X shape up in Tokyo-3. I'm imaging people getting crushed by debris and such, but hardly "mass extinction event"-level stuff.
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Postby kboyrulez12345 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:22 am

View Original Postslothen wrote:Aside from lots of shots of floating debris, everything looks fine except for 2-3 shot where the ground splits in an X shape up in Tokyo-3. I'm imaging people getting crushed by debris and such, but hardly "mass extinction event"-level stuff.


An interesting theory, one person put it as that Misato and the other's being in the 'eye of the storm'. In other words, like a tornado, where in the eye everything is safe, but in the outside, the destruction is going on.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:31 am

View Original Postslothen wrote:Aside from lots of shots of floating debris, everything looks fine except for 2-3 shot where the ground splits in an X shape up in Tokyo-3.

The center of the city, at least, was stripped of structures and peeled up toward the sky.

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Postby slothen » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:33 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:The center of the city, at least, was stripped of structures and peeled up toward the sky.


So everyone would have been evacuated by then.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:39 am

View Original Postslothen wrote:So everyone would have been evacuated by then.

Well, okay. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say here, anyway, since the red Eva thingies are clearly in the city outskirts.

I guess this was about whether or not a "retcon" was involved (beyond retconning the preview, anyway), but mostly it's just a lack of information that's invoked. We're never shown a closeup of the city after the Door of Guf opens over it, so we can't say that the citizens DIDN'T all die and turn into red giants.

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Postby slothen » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:48 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:We're never shown a closeup of the city after the Door of Guf opens over it, so we can't say that the citizens DIDN'T all die and turn into red giants.


I can. :nya:

And yeah, I'm throwing "retconn" around loosely, and the previews don't count. But its clear there was a huge direction shift in what they planned 3.0 to be.
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Postby A.T. Fish » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:04 am

Guy Nacks wrote:How and why was Toji's shirt recycled to give to Shinji?
That just seemed INCREDIBLY contrived.


I take it he survived near third impact and went to Nerv at some point, either willingly or as a captive.

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Postby SurferJon » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:45 am

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:Also the question that really begs to be answered:

How and why was Toji's shirt recycled to give to Shinji?
That just seemed INCREDIBLY contrived.

Maybe to setup Shinji to feeling even more guilty so that when he learns the truth about Tokyo III later it makes him more willing to go along with Kaworu's plan, and thus Gendo's ambitions?
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Postby EvaBrothers » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:42 am

View Original PostA.T. Fish wrote:I take it he survived near third impact and went to Nerv at some point, either willingly or as a captive.


That makes me wonder (once again) were some of the Will-E staff came from. Were all from the NERV personnel? I see non-Japanese people in the cast, so that makes the whole "mass extinction" thing a little vague. I don't know, but I hope we'll get some answers in 4.0.

Another thought: the outside world must be dead under all aspects - including oxygen - if Shinji has to wear an astronaut-like suit to go out with Kaworu.
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Postby slothen » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:26 pm

View Original PostEvaBrothers wrote:Another thought: the outside world must be dead under all aspects - including oxygen - if Shinji has to wear an astronaut-like suit to go out with Kaworu.


No particular reason to believe this. Areas near the epicenter of impact-events are broadly hazardous to life in general. Specifically, in the series gendo and fuyu travel to the site of 2I, and they make specific mention that science allows them to survive in such a place.
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