Asuka vs. Shinji Fist Fight: Who Wins?

Alaska Slim · Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:36 am Post subject: Re: Shinji the WAAMBulance. Bl

Bagheera wrote:

After being pressured to do so by everyone, Kaworu included. And look what that did to him. Yeah, he'll totally be repeating that stunt.

1. I'm not going strictly by the Show's events, all that I'm assuming is that; he has the same backstory, he's fighting 17 angels in all, and certain mitigators that kept him from collapsing before are not present, or at least aren't fully there after Asuka arrives.

2. I'm not assuming this could only happen after all 17 angels are dead. I' am not assuming this takes place after 3I.

This could have happened at any moment in the series, what stopped it, was people willing to be his friends after getting a taste of his life, and Misato offering advice and putting things in perspective.

The entire reason he collapsed in 3I was because he was alienated from those two things to begin with. He lost his friends, and Misato became unreliable.

Bagheera wrote:

Not in person, he didn't.

We know he strikes out, that's an observed behavior from him.

The only question is if he would do so in person, with another conscious individual involved. And once again, I'm not saying that isn't significant.

Still yet, I'm saying that if he had the opportunity to strike at his father at the peak of his anger, he would have. Assuming Gendo said something he didn't like, something that showed he wasn't empathizing.

Bagheera wrote:

Apathetic "stage"? No, man. That's his default persona.

Hey, granted, that doesn't mean that's where he is all the time. His self-loathing is a cycle that needs to reinforce itself or it loses its power.

Truly, he can only remain apathetic so long as he's left alone and not made to face the consequences of his actions. That he cried for Misato in her death, and screamed after seeing EVA-02's desecrated remains demonstrates that even when he's trying to force himself to forget and let go, he can't.

Bagheera wrote:

But, as I've said a few times now, that instinct has only once ever been superseded to the tune of physical violence toward someone else,

I'm saying it was done at least four times, with Kawrou, with Gendo, with Asuka in Hospital and with Asuka in Pre-3I.

Each of these actions were uncharacteristic moments for him, but they still came from him. It informs the viewers of a struggle with emotions that he doesn't normally feel, doesn't completely comprehend, and as a result, has trouble keeping under control.

Sealing himself off is his recourse for this, but he still wishes for others to understand him and he resents it when they don't.

It is that resentment that would lead to him striking out, before relapsing back into his conditioning.

Bagheera wrote:

All the other examples simply don't apply

They do apply, because they emanate from the same source "You don't understand me, you don't even try to".

Shinji has a need to be understood, that's why he spoke up when Touji was beating him, that's why he showed attitude to Misato in the early episodes, and its his major point of contention with Asuka, she seems to "misunderstand" everything he does. If someone had preyed upon that, yelling epithets at him that struck close to home without accounting for his perspective, he would become even more defensive and eventually violent.

It would be especially effective if it was him defending his self-loathing, the thing meeting his emotional needs because others, in his mind, won't.

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Bagheera · Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:13 am Post subject: Re: Shinji the WAAMBulance. Bl

Alaska Slim wrote:

1. I'm not going strictly by the Show's events, all that I'm assuming is that; he has the same backstory, he's fighting 17 angels in all, and certain mitigators that kept him from collapsing before are not present, or at least aren't fully there after Asuka arrives.

Wait, what? If you're going to ignore the show's events the entire premise changes. You're effectively saying "this character could totally get into a fistfight if he were a different character!" That's of course true, but it's also effectively meaningless for the purposes of this discussion.

Quote:

2. I'm not assuming this could only happen after all 17 angels are dead. I' am not assuming this takes place after 3I.

That's the only time it could take place, though, since we know it didn't happen over the course of the series.

If these are the assumptions you're working with we really have nothing to talk about here.

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Warren Peace · Lilin Joined: 28 May 2010 Age: 82

Mr. Tines wrote:

Shinji makes no move to strike back against Touji; and even when later given a free shot to even things out, punches like a girl. In EoE he spends a lot of the time whining about not wanting to hurt people while being shot at.

He is not that autistic kid who turns into a kicking scratching biting ball of hurt when pushed too far -- far from it. Instead his transformation is into a doormat.

But what's different about this dynamic is that they're basically in agreement -- Touji isn't pushing Shinji at all. Shinji thinks he deserves it. Even the "free shot" is pretty much a favor to make Touji feel better. Shinji has no reason to become enraged.

In EOE, when Shinji says he doesn't want to hurt people, I wonder if he's at least partially referring back to his threat to destroy headquarters. Later on he knows that was foolish, of course -- but at the time he was willing to do it. Leaving Nerv wasn't just about his father's betrayal, but an admission that he's capable of doing something reckless when his blood is up. Maybe someone like that shouldn't be piloting, he reasons. Maybe he's right... in EoE, he decides EVERYONE should die because Asuka pisses him off. I'd call that evidence that she can drive him to impulsive decisions.

Alaska Slim · Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:04 am Post subject: Re: Shinji the WAAMBulance. Bl

Bagheera wrote:

Wait, what? If you're going to ignore the show's events the entire premise changes. You're effectively saying "this character could totally get into a fistfight if he were a different character!"

I think I might have been unclear, I'm not ignoring Shinji as he acts in the series, I'm basing my scenario on that in fact. What I' am doing is mix and matching certain character actions and events as they occurred between the battles. I'm asking myself "What if Misato was killed or re-assigned?" or "What if Touji and Kensuke weren't there to crawl into the cockpit, or what if Touji simply lost his house in that battle instead and moved away?"

Shinji is only as different in my scenario as he is from one moment in the series, to another.

I'm not calling upon a state we've never seen him in, we've seen him in it. I'm postulating on what it would take to see something like that from him before Pre-3I.

And the answer is, it's the same as what he lost leading up to 3I, his support system.

You yourself agreed his killing of Kawrou only accelerated his decay, he was already doomed to it.

Thus, if he lost his support system earlier, was exposed to the pressure of his job unfiltered by friends, Kaji or Misato, and was at some point forced to verbally defend himself, I'm saying he would break much the same as he did in Pre-3I.

Bagheera wrote:

That's the only time it could take place, though, since we know it didn't happen over the course of the series.

It happened in EoE, and similar desperate acts of a lesser emotional caliber occurred within the series. It's a part of his nature, it's far shorter-lived than the times he's being passive and apathetic, but it's still there.

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Vegeta 20XX · Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject:

Bagheera wrote:

Asuka's about to give him the beating of a lifetime, when it dawns on her that he's utterly at her mercy. She chooses discretion over valor, takes him to her room, and has her way with him. Shinji, being the obedient lad that he is, takes it like a man. Everybody wins!

Or, I win, having an advantage in weight, height, and distaste for the lot of them. Besides, five years of running, biking, and the like have endowed me with superhuman kicking power - I'm not even lying about that.

On the other hand, I have an intense fear of serious injury in a fight, and probably wouldn't intervene in such a situation because of my pacifist/total pussy nature.

Seriously, though, it's more than likely that it'll end in a stalemate, while Asuka has the advantage of actually fighting, Shinji can snap if put into a situation where he has no other choice, evening the odds if necessary. I can't foresee a clear winner, however.

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Asami Sato · Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:14 am Post subject:

Asuka beats the brains out of Shinji, no sweat. i dunno, lol

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Grimmjow · Gaghiel Joined: 20 Jan 2010

Their fight would go like this.

chaosakita · Matarael Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Age: 18 Gender: Female

Does Shinji even know how to fist-fight?

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Der Kommissar · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:34 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Does Shinji even know how to fist-fight?

Doubtful.

Honestly, my money's on Asuka simply because she's more aggressive as a rule and seems to be more 'okay' with escalating violence than Shinji. If I remember right, she has a couple of inches on Shinji, and with their respective ages being merely fourteen and Shinji being waifish by default, being of the male persuasion offers him no advantage.

Though if Shinji were to hit first, he might win. I honestly don't think Asuka expects anyone to ever bite her back. Not that beating up a fourteen-year-old girl is a particularly laudable or impressive feat.

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bigbadtyrant · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:50 pm Post subject:

Of course Asuka wins, no contest. In fact i wouldn't bet money on it because it would just be sad.

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Vegeta 20XX · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:23 pm Post subject:

Der Kommissar wrote:

Though if Shinji were to hit first, he might win. I honestly don't think Asuka expects anyone to ever bite her back. Not that beating up a fourteen-year-old girl is a particularly laudable or impressive feat.

Unless you take in to account that Shinji has no real advantage in either musculature or strength. It's entirely different than, say, Touji doing the same, in which it's an unfair fight.

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"Try kicking me." "I'm wearing fucking Crocs, why the fuck would I kick you?!?" - John Clayton Wilson-Freeman, the Debugman
What Unit-# did misato used? because i am pretty sure, she pilot a unit once. - ohnasti
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Der Kommissar · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:08 pm Post subject:

I allow for that possibility purely on the basis of surprise. Life isn't an action movie - hit someone on the jaw the right way once and they'll go down.

Or get your hands around their throat, as it seems to be for Shinji.

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Jadley · Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:29 pm Post subject:

I still wonder what kind of action would Shinji take if Asuka were to push him, like insult his dead mother and tell him the that his father doesn't love him.

he'd probably choke her, fail and masturbate. WAY TO GO CHAMP.

"Cough- Anno sick son of a b** Cough-"

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Fireball · Pilot Joined: 17 Sep 2010 Location: Axis

Forget Shinji. How about good ol' red vs blue?

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Bagheera

Fireball wrote:

Forget Shinji. How about good ol' red vs blue?

Still Red. Rei would only fight if she was ordered to, and even then she doesn't appear to be very good at it (though in fairness Asuka doesn't either, at least outside of Eva).

Though again, I have to question how it would happen; we never saw it in the show, despite the animosity between the two, so I'm hard-pressed to imagine a scenario where it might occur.

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The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Bagheera wrote:

Though again, I have to question how it would happen; we never saw it in the show, despite the animosity between the two, so I'm hard-pressed to imagine a scenario where it might occur.

It seemed to have been pretty close to happening in Episode 16, so i imagine that some sort of event (Likely Angel related) That brings their differences to light could stimulate a fight.

Bagheera · Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:36 pm Post subject:

That's just it, though: if it were going to happen that'd be the natural place for it. Since we didn't see it . . . i dunno, lol

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Chris Campbell
If you're wondering about the title, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

arkiel · Lilin Joined: 17 Mar 2009 Location: A Lunar Hellscape

A physically-fit girl vs. an athletically-indifferent boy? That sounds like an even match. Shinji would lose though, he just doesn't have the will for it. Asuka just has more rage/pride in her. If you caught her between 15th and 16th Angel, she actually might kill him.

Manga!Asuka apparently knows kung-fu, so it probably wouldn't be much of a match there.

bobbyfischer's ghost · Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:25 pm Post subject:

In a normal senario Asuka would win hands down. From Gainax's homepage

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Great Genius Shinji-Sama · Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject:

Asuka. She has military training, a backbone and anger management issues. Shinji is too passive and wouldn't even fight back likely. Pre-Instrumentality and EoE scenes not withstanding since that was Shinji pushed beyond all limits. I mean Asuka would have to kill Misato and Rei, break his SDAT and cello, piss on Yui's grave and call her a whore in front of him to get him to the point we see in EoE otherwise.

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bobbyfischer's ghost · Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject:

^ your talking about manga Asuka when pertaining to the military training right?

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