Yes please, whatever you can think of that isn't CG. There's a way of thinking in Hollywood that says that when you consider shooting something, you calculate which would be most cost-effective, and CG usually is. What they don't take into consideration is that whenever they do use CG-animated human beings, they totally lose me. There's nothing worse than a highly noticable amount of CG-frames taking place, when suddenly Spiderman or Legolas or Neo becomes completely polygonical. Movieproducers seem to think it's the shit, but fact is that NOTHING in the Matrix sequels can stand up to the very first slo-mo shot of Trinity doing "the crane" at the very beginning of movie one.

Then again; maybe Matrix is a bad example, because it's kinda supposed to defy gravity.
Point is I fucking hate movie CGI with a passion. It's no substitute for the real deal. If you use it to make fancy-ass effects, I won't be impressed, and you're probably gonna go for the overkill anyway. Shell out some more bucks and shoot it any other way possible, then FIX IT UP with CGI instead and you'll end up with a shot that's a million times more convincing than simply rendering it all.

its gonna be a real bitch to figure out an effective way to make the Angels without CGI...and theyd most certainly NOT make people CGI....they just make the Evas that way...

master0rolando wrote:its gonna be a real bitch to figure out an effective way to make the Angels without CGI...and theyd most certainly NOT make people CGI....they just make the Evas that way...

I can already see big Godzilla-esque angels.

It's horrifying.

imagine Rei going: GAYAKA GAYAKA AAAAAHHH!

I don't like how they animate living bodies in CG. It's never ever managed to fool me.

*sigh* but they will use CG, that's for sure.

Anyway, the sort of animation I'd most prefer would be to have things look like Asuka's last stand. There's just so much presense at that time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRB2woVxcQ4

im sure everyone has seen this....

i think that this is an example of how CG could be employed...now obviously its not nearly good enough....

but the point of the post is that if a FAN can make something this good...imagine what a professional will be able to do...there are plety of other examples of CG that we could use...

im not sure what everyone thinks of the Godzilla movie that took place in Manhatton..(spelled wrong).....but i think the CG was realistic enough...and that was a while ago...i think CG of giant Eva and Angels can be done good enough that it looks real next to the live actors....as long as they dont do the Matrix thing...when he spun on the pole...it was cool and all...but any idiot could tell it was CG...shameful...

but i trust WETA...well just to see.....im sure they use a collection of things...CG...countless models...from toy sized to human sized...theyll probly use it all

I guess I don't mind the Evas being CG. What I wish is just that people realize that CG doesn't mean they can do anything. See, there's nothing they won't do these days, and it's alienated the audience from the actual movies. It kills the immersion. When there's too much crazy shit going on, too fast and too flashy, I'm simply not there. On the other hand, a good old-fashioned bludgeoning does have the power to evoke genuine pain.
But this is not just CG I'm talking about, it's directing all over. The later parts of Evangelion is extremely powerful. They overdo the violence, and the editing makes it even worse. But the way they show violence that makes you tense up and go "oooooohh" has nothing to do with flashy and by all accounts impossible acrobatics, like those we see in most actionflicks these days.

I'm rambling, but my point is just that CG isn't as wonderful as some mad directors seem to think. Movies are all fake, but CG is so fake and plastic that everyone can just feel it. Action in particular works best when it's kept to a minimum. If you're gonna give it your best, then do it like The Matrix; Shoot; then clean it up! Noone is any wiser, and the people who still haven't noticed how little they feel CG will like it even more. So there.

I'm inclined to say that having a lot of CG is fine. It becomes a problem when they do CG just to do CG. They throw it at every problem. About half of the horrifying things in eva are created through the reactions of the characters, not physical violence specifically.

you need to mix CG in with other things like i said before...costumes, models, statues, real shots...

"A pizza with just a ton of pepperoni wont win a pizza contest" --ME...i made it up just now....pretty good eh?

anyway...like i say a million times....WETA has prven themselves worthy of our trust from what ive seen...

there are some things of course that may be near impossible without CG...for example, in Third Impact when all those crosses came out of earth...(what the duece were those things anyway???)...thatll certainly be a CG moment....no doubt

on the other hand...GNR can easily be done without CG...just have the girl playing Rei painted white in de nude and and give her a glowing effect

Iblis 19th Angel wrote:Do you think the Evas & humanoid Angels should be done on the computer, or played by actors in plastic Eva & Angel suits?

I don't really see anything wrong with the CGI as long as it's well done. And I suppose they'd definately need it for some parts, like the Sahaquiel catch.

On the other hand, the Eva's are already humanlike, so they could be played by human actors in shiny plastic costumes. As long as they were well made & not cheesy looking. Could also work for Sachiel & some of the others. And since it is based on a Japanese show, it'd certainly be close to its roots.

you're kidding, right?

In fact, I'd say the CG is the only thing I'm not worried about. Sure Anno could be screwing with us, or change something we might not like, or cast someone we might disagree with, but if Weta is on the visuals, you can count on them to do it right. And yes, Tokyo-3 and the Geofront will be built as miniatures.. or to quote the Weta miniature team "Bigatures."

And I would not be surprised if Andy Serkis is involved.

anno isnt really involved with ELAM silly....

(not that ive heard...)

Anyone who thinks that anything other than top-quality CGI will be acceptable is retarded. No two ways about it. And I'm talking about things like suits, not miniatures.

Prepare for a rant on a revived topic, since this time I actually read all of the responses instead of just the original post.

Feel free to not read this post.

First of all, I'm a lord of the rings fan, and I own and have seen all the extra dvd special "making of" bonus material for the entire trillogy (6 extra dvds of interviews). So my opinion on Weta Workshop is a little biased. However, that does mean I have a fairly good understanding of how they do things.

I dont really understand why cg gets all the hate around here. Weta is the best in the business, and they understand the importance of getting as much "real stuff" in a shot as possible. Most of the long, far off shots in lord of the rings were shot with miniatures. 80 foot tall miniatures in the case of minas tirith. The geofront, tokyo-3 and the other locations for scenes and battles will definitely be "real." Seatle without the space needle? no way in hell. They're gonna build it from scratch.

Some shots weren't done with miniatures. Edoras? They BUILT it. Took them three months of building to do 2 weeks of shooting, but they did it. Real thatching on the roofs, real wooden structures, the mountains in the background are real. Same with hobbiton. Real grass, real holes in the ground.

As for modeling of the evas, Weta's art department builds large scale sculptures first, then they're scanned in. For the actual movement, it will be a combination of regular animation, and motion capture (there will be a guy in a suit for that at least). Probobly the talented Andy Serkis. Motion capture is how you get a cg entity to move like a guy in a suit. Minus the silliness of actually having a guy in a suit.

I will agree though, cg people look a less convincing than real actors, but I can hardly imagine a time when they would actually need to animate an actual human.

King Kong was crap. The CG effects were good, but completely over the top because thats how Peter Jackson wanted it. He really couldn't resist. If he directs elam, I will cry.

This is not a blanket endorsement of CG. In the last ten years, producers have learned what cg can and cannot do. They are not so naive as to think the more CG, the better. Weta workshop is the best in the business, and they know better than anyone else that the more real a shot is, the better it will be. The animation department at Weta is excellent, but only a part of the company as a whole.

The Weta guys say they're more excited about this project than anything else they've ever done. Weta is committed to perfection, and they will deliver.

/rant

I think it's funny that the argument is happening since Herr Greenfingers already stated that they are doing this because he felt CGI has reached to a stage where Eva is possible. CGI is why they are doing it. I almost garuntee you the plugsuits will be real. It's not like Robert Rodriguez is directing.

Also:

dont you know thats how the whole series was shot?

CG would be fine with me. Any real close up shots of Evas or Nerv Headquarters would be cool if they were done with physical models or sets, but I wouldn't be picky. I just want to see an attempt at this movie done.

getting to do the building rising suquence is probly a wet dream for many special effects artists...i say thatl be a minature city

i dont see any humans being CGed...
(dont wanna make the same mistake that Matriz Reloaded made)