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Remaining Questions I Have From NGE



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Embryo


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:17 pm    Post subject:
Remaining Questions I Have From NGE
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Hi everybody. I was wondering if anyone could possibly give me further insight, possibilities, or even answers to some of my remaining questions on NGE. I have watched the original 26 episode, Death & Rebirth, and The End of Evangelion twice over, and I have read through what is completed of the manga twice over as well. After my second time around with the series, I composed a list of remaining questions that I was a little fuzzy on still. I composed the questions in chronological order to how they happened in the series to the best of my ability, and some questions link up or could be answered with answers to some of the other questions. If anybody could help me this it would be greatly appreciated. If you were to answer any set of questions from this post, I'm having a hard time with Question 11, so any attempt in answering it would be wonderful. For brevity’s sake I’ll try not to explain what I think about the questions too much in the questions that I don’t care as much about, because of the long list of questions I have. I actually might have an answer to some of the questions already, but still have some level of doubt. I have also looked at many other posts on various forums, including this one, and have reviewed the evageeks wiki site, so any questions that I still have are because I'm not 100% satisfied with the answer given, or the answer that I have come up with by myself. Of course I haven't seen every piece of content on the internet, so any help would be great. Oh, and my apologies for the length of the questions and the post, I wanted to be as specific as possible, haha. Thanks everybody for any help you can give me, and take care. : )

Neon Genesis Evangelion (Original Series & EoE) Questions:

1.)
Is each planet created with an egg/moon, or does the egg have to land on the planet? For example, was the White Moon on earth to begin with, from earth’s creation, or did it actually make a landing on earth after it was created? If the White Moon did land on the planet earth, and was not there from the very beginning, then when did the White Moon land? Explain. --- Kind of meaningless question, but if you want to respond, go ahead.

2.)
Why didn’t the Angels populate the earth before the Lilim did even though the Black Moon containing Lilith landed on the earth after the Black Moon containing Adam did? Is it because the Angels take a really long time to populate the earth? Or was it because the White Moon and Adam were frozen in the Antarctic before they could populate? Explain.

3.)
When the Black Moon hit the earth, why did the Lilim populate right away, as opposed to that of the Angels and the White Moon? How did the Black Moon’s landing cause the First Impact because the Angels hadn’t populated yet, and no contact between Adam and Lilith was noted? Was this because the First Impact was no more than the impact of the Black Moon with the earth, and not that of the process in which Instrumentality takes place? Explain.

4.)
When the Black Moon’s Spear of Longinus was destroyed upon the Black Moon’s impact with the earth, did the White Moon’s Spear take action to put Adam into stasis because of the fact that Adam could not populate the world with angels, and that Lilith’s Spear was destroyed, so Lilith was the only one left who could populate the earth? What is the Spear of Longinus exactly, and how does it work? What is the Spear’s role in Instrumentality, and how does it affect and interact with Lilith and Adam? Explain.

5.)
What happens leading up to the Second Impact? What was the purpose of the expedition? Did the humans insert the Spear into Adam to separate the body (embryo) and soul (Kaworu)? Was the Spear found in Adam to begin with? When the Spear was taken from the Antarctic the first time, before Second Impact, what was it used for? Was it to divide Lilith into the body and soul, or maybe was it used to start the Eva project? And when the Spear was taken back to the Antarctic, what was the purpose of sticking the Spear into Adam, and what was its relationship with the cause of the Second Impact? Since it wasn’t a complete Second Impact because the whole Human race was not completely destroyed, what prevented it from being so? Was it because of the Spear? Was the whole experiment/expedition leading up to the Second Impact to test the Super Solenoid Theory? Explain.

6.)
Why did it take 15 years after the Second Impact for the first Angels (Besides that of Lilith and Adam) to start attacking? When were the Angels created? Explain.

7.)
If the Angels are after the body of Adam in order to extinguish the Lilim from the earth so that they are the primary life forms, why attack Tokyo-3 before Adam’s embryo was delivered to Tokyo-3 and Nerv? What are the Angels trying to accomplish if that is not the case? What happens if an Angel comes into contact with Lilith? What happens if the Angels retrieve the body/embryo of Adam? Explain.

8.)
Why did Gendo require the Spear of Longinus the second time? If it was to halt the growth of Lilith because she was becoming too powerful, then what would happen if they didn’t stick the Spear into her and let her continue to grow? What was this action’s relevance to the Instrumentality Project? Explain.

9.)
Why was Eva Unit 01 created with Lilith when all of the other Evas were created from Adam? Was creating Eva Unit 01 in accordance with both of Seele’s and Gendo’s plans, or just Gendo? Explain.

10.)
Who is the soul in Eva Unit 00? Is it possibly Ritsuko Akagi’s mother, or is it Rei I? Explain. --- I don't know why I asked this because I have already seen the article on the evageeks wiki. If you want to discuss further, then go ahead, but I don't find a reply necessary.

11.)
What is needed in order for Instrumentality to take place, or one race (Either Adam, or Lilith) to become the dominate race and destroy the other? What is needed to cause this in relation to the body and soul of Adam and Lilith, and what do the bodies and souls of Adam Lilith do on their own and when they are put together in various combinations? What are the Angel’s plans, Seele’s plans, Gendo’s plans, and how did they differ from what actually happened? Why did Third Impact occur the way it did, and how? What is the Spear of Longinus’ significance in the Third Impact and Instrumentality? For example, what had to change in everyone’s plans when the Spear of Longinus was lost? What is Eva Unit 01’s significance in the Third Impact and Instrumentality, as well as what is the significance of the Mass Production Evas? This confuses me the most out of any set of questions. In the end it seems like Rei or the soul of Lilith, took Adam’s body/embryo from Gendo, and combined with the body of Lilith, and initiated Third Impact along with the 9 Mass Production Evas, Eva Unit 01, and the Spear of Longinus which somehow returned in the whole ordeal for some apparent reason. This all happened without Adam’s soul it seems because Kaworu was killed by Shinji and Eva Unit 01. Was Eva Unit 01 needed for instrumentality from the get go or was it just used as a substitute because Kaworu was killed and the Spear of Longinus was lost. It seemed that Seele got fed up with Gendo and decided to initiate Third Impact by sending Kaworu to link up with Lilith, but why did this happen, and how would this be the case? It seems that there are many possibilities for how Instrumentality could take place, or how one race could become the dominant over the other, but what are the exact details of what is needed for it to take place? Explain in depth.

12.)
Why were 12 Mass Production Evas supposed to be built for Seele’s plan to work even though their plan succeeded with only 9? How did Seele succeed in creating Evas with S^2 engines when all other attempts, such as in the case of Eva Unit 04, failed? What is the S^2’s engines importance and significance in relation to the Impacts and Instrumentality, and why does it make Eva Unit 01 and the Mass Production Evas so important in relation to Instrumentality and the Third Impact? Explain.

13.)
What was the soul of the Mass Production Evas? Explain. --- Question is insignificant, so you can disregard.

14.)
What is the significance of the Tree of Life in relation with the Impacts and Instrumentality? Explain.

15.)
Was Shinji chosen to decide whether Instrumentality would take place, or was that up to each individual person? Were Shinji and Asuka the only ones left at the end of it all? Why did Shinji choke Asuka? Explain. --- This one has been asked to death as well, so I'm content with my own answer. I don't find a response to be necessary, but if you feel like it, feel free to discuss.

16.)
Why did the Instrumentality Project have to wait for all of the Angels to be destroyed? Why didn’t Seele just let one of the first Angels make contact with Lilith for Instrumentality to take place? Explain. --- I've heard various answers to this question, but I still don't feel completely content with the answers that I've heard. Feel free to discuss further, but if you choose to skip over, that is okay too.


Last edited by Rightstated on Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:39 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Israfel
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject:
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"Explain." after every single question? What are you, stupid?
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Evangelion
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:45 pm    Post subject:
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Well most of this has been discussed to death but I’ll answer what I can. but it has been explained much better in the past by others
Quote:
7.)
If the Angels are after the body of Adam in order to extinguish the Lilim from the earth so that they are the primary life forms, why attack Tokyo-3 before Adam’s embryo was delivered to Tokyo-3 and Nerv?


Most angels are idiots who could not tell the difference between Adam and Lilith.

Quote:
12.)
Why were 12 Mass Production Evas supposed to be built for Seele’s plan to work even though their plan succeeded with only 9? How did Seele succeed in creating Evas with S^2 engines when all other attempts, such as in the case of Eva Unit 04, failed?


Seele had to accelerate their plans because they realized that Gendo had his own goals that were different from theirs. As for the S2 engine, they perfected after the failed attempt that was unit 04

Quote:
13.)
What was the soul of the Mass Production Evas?


No one knows the souls of the harpies, but the dummy plugs that operated them used Kaworu clones.

Quote:
15.)
Was Shinji chosen to decide whether Instrumentality would take place, or was that up to each individual person?


For EoE Shinji decided the fate of everyone, it is up for debate for what happened in EoTV if there was individual choice.
Quote:
Were Shinji and Asuka the only ones left at the end of it all?

Because they were the only ones who decided to return to their physical forms, others can return if they wish.

Quote:
Why did Shinji choke Asuka?

There are many theories but no one knows for sure
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/12382/Why-was-Shinji-strangling-Asuka-at-the-end-of-EoE
Quote:
16.)
Why did the Instrumentality Project have to wait for all of the Angels to be destroyed? Why didn’t Seele just let one of the first Angels make contact with Lilith for Instrumentality to take place?


Because it would have been a very short show otherwise. But in all seriousness the dead sea scrolls had a prophecy or something like that. Also Angel instrumentality equals death, seele instrumentality equals becoming one with god (or at least that was their reasoning IIRC)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject:

View Original Post qu4d wrote:
"Explain." after every single question? What are you, stupid?

Play nice.
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Embryo


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject:
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View Original Post qu4d wrote:
"Explain." after every single question? What are you, stupid?


You don't have to explain every question or any question at all. I just wanted to say that any help, no matter how big or small, you might be able to give me, would be greatly appreciated.

And I've watched the series before and looked online, like the evageeks wiki, and saw what everybody has to say. I just wanted to get other input/opinions on the matter. And I wanted to get answers to the questions that I felt were not really answered, that being in the show or on the interweb. My major question is Question 11 I think. I feel like no one has really addressed or discussed that, but I could be wrong, due to the mass amount of stuff that is online. But any insight would be great, haha.

Oh, and I'm not sure if you're quoting Asuka there, because I might actually consider that kinda funny, but if you're not, there in no need to be jerkish, haha.
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Israfel
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:30 pm    Post subject:
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View Original Post Rightstated wrote:
You don't have to explain every question or any question at all. I just wanted to say that any help, no matter how big or small, you might be able to give me, would be greatly appreciated.


That was a quote by Asuka. Intentended to be a joke.
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Embryo


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:36 pm    Post subject:
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View Original Post qu4d wrote:
That was a quote by Asuka. Intentended to be a joke.


Haha, okay, thought so. Its hard to pick up on sarcasm when reading text. I already have a basic understanding of most of the questions, and I just put "Explain" after every single question so that people would try to give me more detailed answers, rather than yes or no. Yeah, so sorry about that, you never can tell what people are thinking on the internet, ha.
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Celestial Serendipity
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:14 pm    Post subject:
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View Original Post qu4d wrote:
That was a quote by Asuka. Intentended to be a joke.
You should have added a emoticon at the end. Would have made things alot more clear.
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Evangelion
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:39 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
1.)
Is each planet created with an egg/moon, or does the egg have to land on the planet? For example, was the White Moon on earth to begin with, from earth’s creation, or did it actually make a landing on earth after it was created? If the White Moon did land on the planet earth, and was not there from the very beginning, then when did the White Moon land? Explain. --- Kind of meaningless question, but if you want to respond, go ahead.


The Eggs/Moons are basically space crafts, sent out by something called the First Ancestral Race. None of the Eggs were 'created' on their respective planets. Adam merely landed on Earth before Lilith did. Lilith's rough, accidental landing was the First Impact.

Quote:
2.)
Why didn’t the Angels populate the earth before the Lilim did even though the Black Moon containing Lilith landed on the earth after the Black Moon containing Adam did? Is it because the Angels take a really long time to populate the earth? Or was it because the White Moon and Adam were frozen in the Antarctic before they could populate? Explain.


We don't know. Maybe the difference wasn't long enough for him to get started. Or maybe Adam wasn't ready terraforming the ecosystem for his children.

Quote:
3.)
When the Black Moon hit the earth, why did the Lilim populate right away, as opposed to that of the Angels and the White Moon? How did the Black Moon’s landing cause the First Impact because the Angels hadn’t populated yet, and no contact between Adam and Lilith was noted? Was this because the First Impact was no more than the impact of the Black Moon with the earth, and not that of the process in which Instrumentality takes place? Explain.


The Impacts are basically "world-changing events", not "Adam-Lilith Contact Events." Lilith landed and made it impossible for Adam to birth his children. When she landed on the planet, her own Lance of Longinus was destroyed, so Adam's Lance put him in suspended animation because two Seeds on one planet isn't allows. I don't think Lilith "populated" right away. She just started releasing LCL, which is simultaneously her birthing AND terraforming agent.

And it took billions of years to create Lilim, so...

Quote:

4.)
When the Black Moon’s Spear of Longinus was destroyed upon the Black Moon’s impact with the earth, did the White Moon’s Spear take action to put Adam into stasis because of the fact that Adam could not populate the world with angels, and that Lilith’s Spear was destroyed, so Lilith was the only one left who could populate the earth? What is the Spear of Longinus exactly, and how does it work? What is the Spear’s role in Instrumentality, and how does it affect and interact with Lilith and Adam? Explain.


Basically, Adam was put into suspended animation merely because there isn't allowed to be two Seeds on one planet, and Adam was closer. The Lance of Longinus seems to possess a will of it's own, and is essentially either a biomechanical organism or some sort of incredible god-taming AI. Whether it has a soul, or is just a machine like the MAGI, is unknown. It was designed by the First Ancestral Race to make sure the Seeds don't deviate from the plan.

Quote:
5.)
What happens leading up to the Second Impact? What was the purpose of the expedition? Did the humans insert the Spear into Adam to separate the body (embryo) and soul (Kaworu)? Was the Spear found in Adam to begin with? When the Spear was taken from the Antarctic the first time, before Second Impact, what was it used for? Was it to divide Lilith into the body and soul, or maybe was it used to start the Eva project? And when the Spear was taken back to the Antarctic, what was the purpose of sticking the Spear into Adam, and what was its relationship with the cause of the Second Impact? Since it wasn’t a complete Second Impact because the whole Human race was not completely destroyed, what prevented it from being so? Was it because of the Spear? Was the whole experiment/expedition leading up to the Second Impact to test the Super Solenoid Theory? Explain.


The Lance has been sitting in Adam for billions of years. The Expedition experimented with Adam, and tried to insert some human DNA in him to see what happened. This caused Adam to awaken and for the Lance of Longinus to extract itself, and then the Second Impact happened. Adam was attempting to terraform the planet for his children (which would end up killing all of Lilith's children), but due to the effects of either the Lance or the human DNA, he couldn't finish the job and exploded.

While the people on the expedition didn't know it, SEELE's true purpose for them was an attempt of following the Dead Sea Scrolls, and creating the Paradise they desire. After the Second Impact, the Lance was retrieved and stuck in Lilith just for safety reasons. It played no part in the creation of Rei Ayanami.

Quote:
6.)
Why did it take 15 years after the Second Impact for the first Angels (Besides that of Lilith and Adam) to start attacking? When were the Angels created? Explain.


The Angels were created at the time of the Second Impact, but as demonstrated by Sandalphon, they needed some time to hatch and continue developing. Sachiel's 'egg' was the first one to hatch.

Quote:
7.)
If the Angels are after the body of Adam in order to extinguish the Lilim from the earth so that they are the primary life forms, why attack Tokyo-3 before Adam’s embryo was delivered to Tokyo-3 and Nerv? What are the Angels trying to accomplish if that is not the case? What happens if an Angel comes into contact with Lilith? What happens if the Angels retrieve the body/embryo of Adam? Explain.


I'm not sure the Angels are really aware of that long-term goal. They're essentially superpowerful children, and their instincts and fear are telling them to seek out Mommy.

However, as demonstrated by Kaworu, whatever Sixth Sense they're using to track Adam down, it can't tell the difference between Adam and Lilith (and why should it? They were never meant to be on the same planet). If they contact with the Adam embryo, they essentially merge with it and become the new Adam, and will create a world for Angels.

What happens if they contact Lilith, if anything, is mostly speculative. In the 'Evangelion 2' video game, when an Angel approaches Lilith, it meets the spirit of Rei, who just magically knows her purpose, and they both with Lilith, who puts both Angels and Lilim to "eternal sleep."

Yea, I don't like that scenario because it's kinda stupid, but...eh.

Quote:
8.)
Why did Gendo require the Spear of Longinus the second time? If it was to halt the growth of Lilith because she was becoming too powerful, then what would happen if they didn’t stick the Spear into her and let her continue to grow? What was this action’s relevance to the Instrumentality Project? Explain.


Well, for starters, it was just a nice place to keep it until it's true purpose in the plan came up. Lilith's soul was removed from her, so she wasn't that much of a danger. However it seems she 'bleeds' more LCL if she doesn't properly regenerate.

Quote:

9.)
Why was Eva Unit 01 created with Lilith when all of the other Evas were created from Adam? Was creating Eva Unit 01 in accordance with both of Seele’s and Gendo’s plans, or just Gendo? Explain.


It was basically just to see if they could. That's why it's a 'Test Type'. Both SEELE and Gendo were also hoping that it'd be nice to have a spare incase something for Lilith, just like the other Evas are capable of substituting for Adam.

Quote:

10.)
Who is the soul in Eva Unit 00? Is it possibly Ritsuko Akagi’s mother, or is it Rei I? Explain. --- I don't know why I asked this because I have already seen the article on the evageeks wiki. If you want to discuss further, then go ahead, but I don't find a reply necessary.


Yea, it's basically the Soul of Rei 1, who is half of Lilith's soul.

Quote:
11.)
What is needed in order for Instrumentality to take place, or one race (Either Adam, or Lilith) to become the dominate race and destroy the other? What is needed to cause this in relation to the body and soul of Adam and Lilith, and what do the bodies and souls of Adam Lilith do on their own and when they are put together in various combinations? What are the Angel’s plans, Seele’s plans, Gendo’s plans, and how did they differ from what actually happened? Why did Third Impact occur the way it did, and how? What is the Spear of Longinus’ significance in the Third Impact and Instrumentality? For example, what had to change in everyone’s plans when the Spear of Longinus was lost? What is Eva Unit 01’s significance in the Third Impact and Instrumentality, as well as what is the significance of the Mass Production Evas? This confuses me the most out of any set of questions. In the end it seems like Rei or the soul of Lilith, took Adam’s body/embryo from Gendo, and combined with the body of Lilith, and initiated Third Impact along with the 9 Mass Production Evas, Eva Unit 01, and the Spear of Longinus which somehow returned in the whole ordeal for some apparent reason. This all happened without Adam’s soul it seems because Kaworu was killed by Shinji and Eva Unit 01. Was Eva Unit 01 needed for instrumentality from the get go or was it just used as a substitute because Kaworu was killed and the Spear of Longinus was lost. It seemed that Seele got fed up with Gendo and decided to initiate Third Impact by sending Kaworu to link up with Lilith, but why did this happen, and how would this be the case? It seems that there are many possibilities for how Instrumentality could take place, or how one race could become the dominant over the other, but what are the exact details of what is needed for it to take place? Explain in depth.


Oh gee, this one's a doozy. For one thing, Instrumentality is a different thing from one of the races resetting the planet. For the latter, you need an awake, conscious Adam or Lilith. They're pretty much capable of doing it by themselves.

The souls of Adam and Lilith don't seem to be anything particularly special on their own, aside from having god-like AT Fields and having the knowledge and memories of how to use the enormous power of their bodies. Meaning if you hypothetically put Lilith's soul in Adam's body, and for SOME REASON Lilith feels like giving the Angels a turn with the planet (maybe she feels bad for ruining Adam's chance? I don't know), then you effectively just have Adam.

The Angels wanted to find their Mother and merge with her. The result of this is that they basically become Adam and reset the planet. Gendo wanted to basically screw over SEELE's plan, which would collect everyone's souls in Unit 01 temporarily so they can ride out the effects of Third Impact, then boot everyone out except himself and Yui, so he can be with her again. Gendo wanted to merge all souls together into a single supersoul, and create a new God that doesn't feel pain, loneliness, sadness (or happiness, joy, desire, or love, consequently).

What actually happened came dangerously close to fulfilling SEELE's ambitions, since control of Instrumentality was put in Shinji's hands and he initially chose SEELE's way of thinking. However, he changed his mind at the last minute, so everyone's souls separated again, and everyone gained the ability to come back to life and make a new body if they wanted to. Yui/Unit 01 went into space, and in my opinion was carrying the souls of the Angels and any Lilim that might have wanted to come with her (except Gendo) and those who didn't want to re-embody, like SEELE.

Where's Yui going off to? A popular theory is that she is now basically a new Seed of Life, and is going to populate another planet, to continue the cycle of Life. I like to think she'll make some Angels since they never got a turn.

The Spear's role is kind of weird. Apparently it was needed to create a 'Tree of Life' with Unit 01, which is mostly for SEELE's Religion Boner but is somehow also necessary. Apparently it somehow altered the way Instrumentality was functioning.

Unit 01 was a spare for Lilith, and functioned as the other component of the Tree of Life. Again, your guess is as good as mine. However, I can say that Shinji (who was inside it at the time) had a Pre-Instrumentality mind-link up with Rei, Asuka, and Misato before Instrumentality officially started for everyone else.

The Mass Production Evas were used to eliminate any unneccessary Evas like Unit 02, and afterwards to create a special AT Field Array to summon the Lance of Longinus back to Earth. They wanted 12 so they could create a proper Kabbalistic Tree of Life arrangement for their Religion Boner, but they only could develop 9 in time.

Kaworu's soul was apparently salvaged and put in the Adam Embryo/Gendo's Hand before Gendo tried to fuse with Rei. If he didn't do this himself, then Rei collected Kaworu's soul herself when she was collecting everyone else's souls.

Unit 01 was a substitute; it wasn't intrinsically necessary. Anyway, Kaworu being used was always part of their plan because they never trusted Gendo. They had struck a deal with him, to the likes of "We'll let you have Adam and populate the planet with Angels, and in return you fuse all of the Lilim souls together." Kaworu responded with "Um....whatever, guys, lol. Okay. (Lilim are weird)"

Of course we know how THAT turned out. For starters, SEELE was setting Kaworu up so that he'd be killed as the last Angel. They duped him, telling him that Lilith was Adam.

The only necessary details for a Third Impact to take place is for the "forbidden union" to occur. The Fruits of Life and Knowledge must come together when they were never meant to. This essentially boils down to fusing Adam and Lilith, or anything just as good.

Quote:
12.)
Why were 12 Mass Production Evas supposed to be built for Seele’s plan to work even though their plan succeeded with only 9? How did Seele succeed in creating Evas with S^2 engines when all other attempts, such as in the case of Eva Unit 04, failed? What is the S^2’s engines importance and significance in relation to the Impacts and Instrumentality, and why does it make Eva Unit 01 and the Mass Production Evas so important in relation to Instrumentality and the Third Impact? Explain.


Religion Boner. Also SEELE intentionally sabotaged Unit 04. The S2 Engines are important because they're the only thing Adam has that the Evangelions DON'T have. They become perfect clones when they have one of those.

Quote:

13.)
What was the soul of the Mass Production Evas? Explain. --- Question is insignificant, so you can disregard.


Probably hobos.

Quote:

14.)
What is the significance of the Tree of Life in relation with the Impacts and Instrumentality? Explain.


Your guess is as good as mine, lol. I chalk it up to SEELE's Religion Boner.

Quote:

15.)
Was Shinji chosen to decide whether Instrumentality would take place, or was that up to each individual person? Were Shinji and Asuka the only ones left at the end of it all? Why did Shinji choke Asuka? Explain. --- This one has been asked to death as well, so I'm content with my own answer. I don't find a response to be necessary, but if you feel like it, feel free to discuss.


This depends on concurrency. You could argue that the TV Ending and the EOE ending are the same event, some feel it's two events. In the TV Ending, if separate from EOE, it's possible to argue that this is perhaps a different play out from EOE's version of Instrumentality, and everyone decides for themselves. In EOE, however, Shinji is UNAMBIGUOUSLY in charge of everyone's fates. Rei was given absolute control, and then she deferred to Shinji. In the end, he chose for humanity to continue, but it's up to each individual human to rematerialize themselves. Otherwise they can keep floating around in the sea as a disembodied soul.

Quote:

16.)
Why did the Instrumentality Project have to wait for all of the Angels to be destroyed? Why didn’t Seele just let one of the first Angels make contact with Lilith for Instrumentality to take place? Explain. --- I've heard various answers to this question, but I still don't feel completely content with the answers that I've heard. Feel free to discuss further, but if you choose to skip over, that is okay too.


Probably so an Angel doesn't show up and fuck everything up when Instrumentality is attempted. No WAY that huge event wouldn't cause every Angel to show up at once or something.

Also, it seems SEELE wants EVERYONE to be part of their new God. Which means killing the Angels so they can hop in too, I guess.
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もういない


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject:
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View Original Post Final Messenger wrote:
No one knows the souls of the harpies, but the dummy plugs that operated them used Kaworu clones.

They used dummy systems, which are (inside the plugs) digitized personality data on gigantic CD doodads.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject:
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View Original Post Reichu wrote:
gigantic CD doodads.

Actual technical terminology.
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Embryo


Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject:
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View Original Post The Eva Monkey wrote:
Actual technical terminology.


lol
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Evangelion
Evangelion


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Location: Za Warudo

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:24 pm    Post subject:
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View Original Post Reichu wrote:
They used dummy systems, which are (inside the plugs) digitized personality data on gigantic CD doodads.


Except that doesn't explain their AT Fields.
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もういない


Joined: 21 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:10 pm    Post subject:
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View Original Post AuraTwilight wrote:
Except that doesn't explain their AT Fields.

My post was only correcting the assertion that Kaworu clones are inside the dummy plugs, which has no bearing upon who is inside the harpies' cores.
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Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel


Joined: 07 Feb 2011
Age: 24
Gender: Male
Location: 609 miles southwest of Branch 01

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:06 am    Post subject:
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View Original Post The Eva Monkey wrote:
Actual technical terminology.



Quote:
Gendo wanted to basically screw over SEELE's plan, which would collect everyone's souls in Unit 01 temporarily so they can ride out the effects of Third Impact, then boot everyone out except himself and Yui, so he can be with her again. Gendo wanted to merge all souls together into a single supersoul, and create a new God that doesn't feel pain, loneliness, sadness (or happiness, joy, desire, or love, consequently).

Your wording seems a little confusing; should it be like this instead?

Quote:
Gendo wanted to basically screw over SEELE's plan, which would merge all souls together into a single supersoul, and create a new God that doesn't feel pain, loneliness, sadness (or happiness, joy, desire, or love, consequently).

Gendo wanted to collect everyone's souls in Unit 01 temporarily so they can ride out the effects of Third Impact, then boot everyone out except himself and Yui, so he can be with her again.
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Adam


Joined: 19 Feb 2012
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Location: california

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
13.) What was the soul of the Mass Production Evas? Explain. --- Question is insignificant, so you can disregard.

Probably hobos.


hobos , lol, pragmatic and amusing but unlikely. Random anyone whether homeless or not is also unlikely. SEELE could not afford the kind of risks that would set up for them at that stage: remember that the soul can reject the dummy plug. Plans for the mass production units had been in place all along so plans for the souls would be established well beforehand. There were years with the forcible need for pilots closely linked with the soul in the unit before the realization of the dummy plug so there would be concern with which soul can go in that can have which viable pilot.

There are references (let me know if you want further details) which hint at the possibility for the souls in the mass production units as being from the members of Class 2-A. I've always found this one disturbing but fitting with SEELE's nature. In this light, the question is far from insignificant.
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Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
Gender: Male

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 6:42 am    Post subject:
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View Original Post AuraTwilight wrote:
The Spear's role is kind of weird. Apparently it was needed to create a 'Tree of Life' with Unit 01, which is mostly for SEELE's Religion Boner but is somehow also necessary. Apparently it somehow altered the way Instrumentality was functioning.


I maintain it had nothing to do with Instrumentality. Given the way it came back to Earth, its stated role in the CI, and its association with Yui at the end I'm inclined to believe it was there to bind her so that Lilith could complete her transformation into a SoL. Life for life, so technically not a breach of the FAR's rules.

Quote:
The Mass Production Evas were used to eliminate any unneccessary Evas like Unit 02, and afterwards to create a special AT Field Array to summon the Lance of Longinus back to Earth.


Note it came back when Yui activated her S2, not in response to the MPEs. To my knowledge this was the first time Yui had activated the S2; she went dormant after eating it in ep. 19, and was on lockdown until being sortied against Armisael. The S2 didn't activate until EoE, which is when the Lance returned (with all possible haste, at that).

Quote:
Of course we know how THAT turned out. For starters, SEELE was setting Kaworu up so that he'd be killed as the last Angel. They duped him, telling him that Lilith was Adam.


Though they also told him Adam was reborn in Gendo, so it could have been one massive fakeout on both their parts.

Quote:
The only necessary details for a Third Impact to take place is for the "forbidden union" to occur. The Fruits of Life and Knowledge must come together when they were never meant to. This essentially boils down to fusing Adam and Lilith, or anything just as good.


Given Adam's actions during 2I this does not appear to be necessary. Lilith can clearly tang the planet all by her lonesome; Angels can likewise trigger an Impact event (albeit one sans Instrumentality) merely by coming into contact with their progenitor (assuming that's not a lie, of course). Further, since SEELE was particularly upset when Yui acquired a S2 engine it would seem that their plans did not call for such a union. IMO the forbidden union was necessary to turn Yui into a SoL, and nothing else.

Quote:
Religion Boner. Also SEELE intentionally sabotaged Unit 04.


Do we have confirmation of this?

View Original Post Fireand'chutes77 wrote:
Your wording seems a little confusing; should it be like this instead?


That appears accurate, yes.
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Evangelion
Evangelion


Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Location: Za Warudo

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject:
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I'll be honest, Bagheera. I'll just be satisfied if Religion Boner becomes a turn of phrase on this forum.
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Lilith


Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Age: 29

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:56 pm    Post subject:
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View Original Post AuraTwilight wrote:
I'll be honest, Bagheera. I'll just be satisfied if Religion Boner becomes a turn of phrase on this forum.

Seconded.

[Edit] Thing that always bugged me about Evangelion was the backstory was never fully explained in the actual anime. We only get to see the end results and some speculation by the characters.
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Asuka's Bulldog
Asuka's Bulldog


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
Gender: Male

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:19 pm    Post subject:
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View Original Post AuraTwilight wrote:
I'll be honest, Bagheera. I'll just be satisfied if Religion Boner becomes a turn of phrase on this forum.


Yes, but that doesn't resolve anything!
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