Shinji + Rei = Incest?

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Postby Bagheera » Sat May 28, 2011 10:43 am

View Original PostSomeone wrote:Har Har Har.


It's obvious that Rei is cloned from Yui, but for how much?
Certainly, she is not an exact copy. There's Lilith's DNA.


So what?
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sat May 28, 2011 10:45 am

Bagheera: Another thing regarding hair style/color: Keep in mind that Eva-01 has flowing, flame-like, blue hair at the end of EoE. It's subject to speculation that Eva-01 is "carrying the torch" of Lilith and Adam as a new SoL considering how the Spear is now different, Yui showed the same quantum magic properties of Lilith and Adam during EoE, Eva-01 has become "like a God" during EoE's events, how Yui's going on a "lonely journey" (perhaps to eventually start new life like the FAR or the SoLS?)....

Someone: Kaworu has red eyes, pale skin, and different hair color (gray for Kaworu, blue for Rei) just like Rei does. He carries Adam's soul, Rei carries Lilith's, and Kaworu comments that Rei and him "are the same". As such, Rei's hair color--among the other examples--are going to be Lilith's influence on Rei, not Yui's.
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Postby Bagheera » Sat May 28, 2011 11:49 am

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Bagheera: Another thing regarding hair style/color: Keep in mind that Eva-01 has flowing, flame-like, blue hair at the end of EoE.


Huh. You know, I never noticed that. I don't know that I'd call it hair, but it's definitely a halo or something. I wonder why she didn't have anything like what when she came out of Lilith? We only see it in her last scene.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sat May 28, 2011 11:53 am

It's hair, the script even says it is:

http://www.evacommentary.org/episode-m26/episode-m26-scene11.html

Cut 459
EVA-01 comes IN.
The helmet is gone; hair is waving about.
(Her color is back to purple.)


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Postby Bagheera » Sat May 28, 2011 12:00 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:It's hair, the script even says it is:


Ah, okay then. Doesn't look like it IMO, but that's neither here nor there.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Stryker » Sat May 28, 2011 1:03 pm

Alright, so we have (so far) confirmed that it would be genetically incest. But, would it be in legal terms?
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Postby AuraTwilight » Sat May 28, 2011 1:43 pm

Absolutely not, since as far as the law is concerned, Rei Ayanami has no connection to the Ikari family.
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Postby NemZ » Sat May 28, 2011 3:00 pm

I always thought that the little Yui/Rei hints were often overly forced and one of the low points of the second half, personally. Between Shinji's crazy sense of smell and pointing out that there's apparently a 'motherly' way to wring a wet towel it all came across as incredibly awkward. Even the "well that's good for you" line doesn't seem like something Rei would say instead of something about doctor's orders or the need to insure battle readiness.
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Postby esselfortium » Sat May 28, 2011 3:15 pm

I think Shinji was intended to come off as incredibly awkward in that scene, much like he was when he came to her apartment while she was showering.

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Postby Someone » Sat May 28, 2011 3:51 pm

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:Absolutely not, since as far as the law is concerned, Rei Ayanami has no connection to the Ikari family.


That.

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Postby Kendrix » Sat May 28, 2011 3:54 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote: Between Shinji's crazy sense of smell and pointing out that there's apparently a 'motherly' way to wring a wet towel it all came across as incredibly awkward. Even the "well that's good for you" line doesn't seem like something Rei would say instead of something about doctor's orders or the need to insure battle readiness.


Believe it or not, the towel-wringing bit makes sense - You often find ridiculous similarities in little insignificant-seeming gestures amongst closely related ppl - For example, I've read about a pair of twins that was separated a birth, lived completely different lives and joined the oposite sides of the political spectrum - but they both had an habit of sneezing in elevators.
Or, my father is firmly convinced that I push up my glasses exactly like my grandmother used to.
So Shinji saw Rei wring out the towel somewhat like Yui and subconciously connected it to "motherness".
as for ep 16, well, guess you misjudged Rei there - She's often worried about Shinji (Earlier that episode, she participated in the other childrens's act of "basically doing what they want to", hesitated to carry out Misato's retreat order after Shinji got absorbed, got into a fight with Asuka that Misato had to break up telling both girls that it's enough, we see her express worry once again in ep 19/18...), that response is not exactly jarring deviation from her behavior in that storyarc. (She has a freakin crush on the guy and I think it's pretty obvious) She just happened to say the same thing for reasons unrelated to Yui - but her voice happens to sound similar, prompting the vague "!" reaction from Shinji.
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Postby Stryker » Sat May 28, 2011 4:02 pm

Stick to the point: Would it be legally incest?
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Postby Kendrix » Sat May 28, 2011 4:03 pm

View Original PostStryker wrote:Stick to the point: Would it be legally incest?


That's probably not so easy to determine with an artificial being - technically, Rei is related to no one...
IDepending on your argumentation, they could get counted as cousins, and you can marry those.


And in any case, they could probably marry in france. XD
Last edited by Kendrix on Sat May 28, 2011 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby NemZ » Sat May 28, 2011 4:04 pm

Yes, but it's still a very un-Rei sort of thing to say. I'm in total agreement with your assessment of her motives though.
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Postby Kendrix » Sat May 28, 2011 4:11 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Yes, but it's still a very un-Rei sort of thing to say. I'm in total agreement with your assessment of her motives though.


It's meant to show that she's acting "more normal" - earlier, we saw her basically storming into a batte without consulting her superiors, or, in ep 15, blush and nervously look around like, well, a 14 year old that got complimented by her crush/ or best friend if you will, tough it certainly looks more like the former.
Shinji is probably meant to sound akward here - She went "Did you just look at me because you wanted me to ask that?" (implying that she hoped/wanted him to look at her because of, duh, herself) and, afrtaid that he might've screwed up and made her unhappy,. blurts out the next best thing on his mind (and, realizing that he just said a weird thing, quickly molds it into a "proper" compliment, "You'd make a good housewife" lest she be dissapointed again... )
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sat May 28, 2011 4:18 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:as for ep 16, well, guess you misjudged Rei there - She's often worried about Shinji


Asuka and Misato were just as worried in Episode 16. Asuka was the one to first protest when Eva-01 was captured by Leliel (she got cut off by Rei showing concern for both Eva-01 and Shinji), Asuka's "bad-mouthing Shinji" was her trying to hide said worry while Misato took out her anger on Ritsuko (with her not caring about what happened to Shinji but Eva-01).

(She has a freakin crush on the guy and I think it's pretty obvious)


Source? I didn't see many indications of Rei having a crush on Shinji, especially when you take into account Rei II's "Is this my heart? To become one with Ikari-kun? No." line in Episode 23', which does have the "become one with = Instrumentality" implication. (See also: Episode 20 and EoE.) Considering it was Armisael taking on Rei's form trying to merge with Eva-01.... (The "No" in this context = dame ダメ 1: no good; not serving its purpose; useless; broken; 2: hopeless; wasted; in vain; purposeless; 3: cannot; must not; not allowed)

Episode 18, at least, consists of Toji telling Rei that she's worried about Shinji due to how Shinji's reaction would be about Toji being the new Eva pilot. At least, that was my reading of the scene. (Even Misato didn't have it in her to tell Shinji because of the recent stress he dealt with regarding Leliel.) It's of interest to note that Toji considers Asuka and Shinji to be the "married couple", he describes Rei to be "worried":

Platinum Episode 18 wrote:Rei (OFF): Suzuhara...

TOJI: Oh, Ayanami, if you're lookin' for Shinji, he ain't here. You know 'bout me, don't you? Seems Sohryu knows too. So Shinji's the only one who doesn't know. You don't usually care 'bout people.

Rei: Really? I'm not sure I understand.

TOJI: The one you care about's Shinji.

Rei: Do I? You may be right.

TOJI: Yeah, you do.
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Postby Bagheera » Sat May 28, 2011 4:20 pm

View Original PostStryker wrote:Alright, so we have (so far) confirmed that it would be genetically incest. But, would it be in legal terms?


Yes, it would, assuming Rei's nature was known. Fucking your sister is still incest even if you don't know she's your sister.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Someone » Sat May 28, 2011 4:21 pm

But she is not. She was cloned.
Okay, new argument:

ImageRei did NOT give birth to Shinji, therefore she is NOT his mother. Thats sounds pretty logical.
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Postby Monk Ed » Sat May 28, 2011 4:28 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:Source? I didn't see many indications of Rei having a crush on Shinji, especially when you take into account Rei II's "Is this my heart? To become one with Ikari-kun? No." line in Episode 23'

That line, if anything, seems more to support the theory than deny it, that Rei at some point had sexual feelings for Shinji but then later decided against them. The fact that she even asks herself that question in the first place shows that it was, well, a question.

Something similar to that seems to happen from Shinji's end in EoE, except with the scope broadened to include implications for the rest of humanity -- he and Rei were in a sexual position, and then he decided that it wasn't right, and so they climbed out of each other and then held hands like family.

(Note that it was Shinji who had to decide this -- Rei was perfectly okay with symbolically fucking him if that's what he wanted >_>)

Unfortunately, so much of what characterizes normal familial relationship behavior does also characterize sexual relationship behavior. The close overlap between the two is supported by the article on GSA; if we "adjust for realism", all the blushing Rei did around Shinji was probably crush-related, since they did not in fact grow up as family.

Or, more importantly, although Rei probably evokes a sense of "mother" from Shinji because she might smell like his mom and such (and that would drive his sexual feelings away over time because he'd already been imprinted with her), Rei was never imprinted with Shinji, so GSA would be in effect unless she later decided against it, which might be exactly what she does in ep 23.
Last edited by Monk Ed on Sat May 28, 2011 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Bagheera » Sat May 28, 2011 4:38 pm

View Original PostSomeone wrote:But she is not. She was cloned.


Which means genetically she is his sister, which is all inbreeding (and thus incest) cares about. It's biology. Once you understand what the terms mean the rest is obvious.

Rei did NOT give birth to Shinji, therefore she is NOT his mother. Thats sounds pretty logical.


It's also irrelevant.
Last edited by Bagheera on Sat May 28, 2011 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.


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