Refrain of Evangelion booklet transcript (at long last!!)

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only.

Moderator: Board Staff

gatotsu911
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 1646
Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Location: US of East Coast
Gender: Male
Contact:

Refrain of Evangelion booklet transcript (at long last!!)

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby gatotsu911 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:06 am

Well, here you go! The complete transcript of the Refrain of Evangelion companion booklet, as distributed in North America by Geneon. (well, mostly complete - I left out the track list and some redundant lyrics in the middle as specified below - FORGIVE ME) I included a little color commentary as well, in regards to bits that interested me. This groundbreaking epic took me nearly two and a half hours to ram out, so I really hope it makes somebody's day. By the way, I have the entire thing saved as a Word document, so if for any reason anyone (such as Gwern) wants to have it in that format they need only PM me.

So, without further ado...


Refrain of Evangelion booklet transcript (commentary and lyrics)
Author unknown; translator unknown
Distributed in North America by Geneon
Transcript written by gatotsu911

[Commentary]

This album consists of music from the TV series NEON GENESIS EVANGELION (Aired from October 1995 to March 1996 on TV Tokyo) the first theatrical release NEON GENESIS EVANGELION: DEATH AND REBIRTH (Opened theatrically in March 1997 from Toei), and the concluding volume THE END OF EVANGELION Air/Sincerely Yours (Opened theatrically in July 1997). The composer, Mr. Shiro Sagisu, teamed up with the director, Hideaki Anno for the second time after NADIA: THE SECRET OF BLUE WATER (1990). Mr. Sagisu later worked on projects for Gainax such as HIS AND HER CIRCUMSTANCES (1998) and ABENOBASHI MAGICAL * SHOPPING ARCADE (2002).
I believe that for those of you who hold this CD in your hands right now, you have gone through many different opportunities to become familiar with EVANGELION. This project is a renewal project to celebrate the 10-year anniversary of starting EVANGELION. This CD also has an introductory purpose for those who have gotten interested in EVANGELION sometime in the past 10 years.
And, for those who’ve been fans of EVANGELION since it was aired for the first time, although all this music is so well known, please accompany with this CD till the end.

1. Suiten for Violoncello solo Nr. 1 G-dur, BWV. 1007 1. Vorspier
This is the opening for EVANGELION: DEATH and an introductory part of Bach’s unaccompanied cello suite #1 played by a boy who looked just like Shinji. We used a method of shuffling the main scenes to express each block, which is the same style as DEATH. As a mark of respect, we start with this song.

2. DECISIVE BATTLE
In DEATH, this music accompanies Eva Unit 1’s action scene immediately after the opening sequence whose dramatic, speed-filled sequence engages the audience at once. All of the notations, after the titles of BGM, within the parenthesis are called “M numbers” that reflect the production order requested to the composer. For each EVANGELION soundtrack, the director, Mr. Anno, gave the titles to each song at the time of the release.

3. ANGEL ATTACK
This is the commemorative first BGM used in the original project. Since then, this BGM was used often during the scenes in which the Angels appeared and battled. This BGM was played also when the Strategic Self Defense Forces attack the NERV HQ. The established ferocious image of the BGM actually emphasizes that the enemy for humans are other humans.

4. THE BEAST (Quick tempo)
As the title indicates, this song is used mainly in the scenes where the EVA unit goes out of control just like a beast. [gatotsu911: No mention of Christian connotations of “The Beast”? Interesting.] Especially the attack of Unit 3, which was hijacked by an Angel in Episode 18, is partially traced from the movement of Unit 1 in Episode 2. The buildup effect of images created by using the same song amplified the scene of terror.

5. THANATOS
Thanatos is the god that personifies death in Greek mythology. Freud’s psychoanalytical theories post that the death instinct is a basic human trait in opposition to sexual instinct that seeks to preserve and unify. Consequently, Freud asserts that the dichotomy of Eros and Thanatos is a ubiquitous human condition and a locus of conflict. This song was played in several important scenes in Episode 19, 23 and, although it was a different version, in the movie.

6. MARKING TIME, WAITING FOR DEATH
The song’s distinctive feature is a contrast between the quiet tension played out by a piano in the first half and the images of a fierce battle scene brought out in the entirely different second half. We often used the first half and the latter half of the song as independent songs throughout this series.

7. THE BEAST II
We lined up track 5 to 7 in the same order as the climactic battle against Zeruel. This song is used in the scene after the awakening of Unit 1 and taking in the S2 system from the Angels. It is a digression, but I was told that a pattern on Zeruel’s body imitates the silhouette of a human face’s profile… Keeping that in mind, it could be the groundwork for later when the Angels split their angelic forms into separate parts such as wings, halo and human-like body to try to contact Asuka, Rei and Shinji.

8. Kanon D-dur (Strings Orchestra)
Although we have heard all violent songs up to now, with this ending song from DEATH, a famous baroque piece, we call a halt to the violence for a moment. The composer of this song, Pachelbel, was the master of Bach’s older brother and Bach himself was influenced a great deal. That is the reason why Bach’s AIR and JESU, JOY OF MAN’S DESIRING are naturally adapted to THE END OF EVANGELION.

9. Rei I
This melody leaves an impression of sadness. Later a phrase from the song appears a little in EXPANSION OF BLOCKAGE from THE END OF EVANGELION – and this is a good example of merit since the impression is already iserted from the TV version into the character theme.

10. Misato
There are some cheerful scenes of Misato’s apartment in the first half of the TV version where the song with a lilting tune is always played. This song has an unusual musical tune for EVANGELION; however, since Mr. Sagisu also participated in the music composition for the nationally acclaimed variety TV program “Waratte Iitomo!”, this type of music is also his cup of tea.

11. Asuka STRIKES!
This one is also a cheerful song with the country style to bring out the charming point of Asuka’s unyielding spirit. Further, Asuka’S THEME was played for Rei’s appearance scene as a transfer student in the World of Possibility, the last episode of the TV series, and Misato’S THEME was played when Asuka was introduced as Shinji’s childhood friend. I wonder if these are also an audio indicator for giving the suggestion of “another possibility.”

12. FLY ME TO THE MOON (Aya Bossa Techno TV Size Version)
Originally this song was written as a waltz, but a pianist, Joe Harnel rearranged it into a bossa nova and made the song into a big hit in 1962. Therefore, even this version of FLY ME TO THE MOON is still acclaimed for its cute sound and voice. This is a standard number that various artists in the world such as Frank Sinatra have sung. Hikaru Utada’s cover is well known in Japan.

13. FLY ME TO THE MOON (Aki Jungle TV Size Version)
The arranger, Mr. Toshiyuki O’mori [gatotsu911: “O’mori”?? What, is he part Irish?] successfully created various different styles of FLY ME – and here he used the jungle beats which were a popular club sound back then.

14. FLY ME TO THE MOON (Main Version II/TV Size for Renewal #16)
We created all different ending versions for each episode for the enhanced DVD versions. This particular track is an edited version of the theatrical release’s commemorative limited edition, NEON GENESIS EVANGELION ADDITION. And for those who prefer the popular Rei’s version, we recommend the full length version recorded on the EVANGELION- THE BIRTHDAY OF Rei Ayanami.

15. Next Episode (30 second version)
Due to the regulation and limitations for the season aired on TV, although each preview was originally created in the 30-second format, they were edited down to 15 seconds. Here we’d like you to enjoy the full, original format.

16. A Cruel Angel’s Thesis (TV Size Version)
Although Mr. Anno, the diretor planned to use “Danse Polovtsienne” (from the opera, Prince Igor by Alexander Borodin) as an opening song, the TV station was concerned that having a classical music tune as the opening song would be unclear for the starting of a TV anime show, and this song wasn’t used. The coordination of the song was done by the executive producer, Mr. Toshimichi Ohtsuki (however, his name is not on the credits in the film). He requested to change the streaming melody into a crispy notching style in the demo stage. To support the atmosphere aimed by Mr. Ohtsuki for the opening direction, the anime staff pushed themselves with rapidly changing edits which reflect their amazing efforts and good sense. As per Director Anno’s request, we cut out the male chorus in order to emphasize maternal affection for the opening song. [gatotsu911: Now I kinda want to hear the unisex version!]

17. Soul’s Refrain
The production of DEATH and REBIRTH was announced and was supposed to be a brand new story for the final episode; however, the concept of the story got so big that the real final episode was carried over to that summer. And it was decided in haste that the middle of episode 25, AIR was drawn instead. Although such a fact was already announced prior to the opening, loud stirring noises were echoed in the theater when the beginning of the song started playing in the scene with the EVA series. The world of the endless summer that was described in EVANGELION is the season of incidents that lets a boy grow or the season that has a lot of homework in store. So it’s no coincidence that the final episode was released in summer. [gatotsu911: Is he implying that the film was deliberately held back to get a summer release?? Oh Anno, you rascal!]

18. THANATOS – IF I CAN’T BE YOURS –
It is the meticulously created world of adulthood. It is quite understandable that Mr. Haruo Chikada praised it as the “Perfection of Artificial Beauty” in his book, “Thinking Hit.” [gatotsu911: I have no idea what he’s talking about here, and I get the sense the translator didn’t either.] It was originally sort of a musical experiment to remake the existing BGM into a real R&B which Mr. Sagisu was working on in London. As soon as Director Anno listened to his demo tape, he made the snap decision to use it as the main theme for THE END ~. After listening to THE END ~, Mr. Sagisu commented that since even this type of music was used without any sense of incongruity, he realized the depth of EVANGELION’s world. Indeed, it was like a symbol of how monstrous the project evolved to be.

19. MOTHER IS THE FIRST OTHER
Mother is the first other. A small child doesn’t comprehend how to distinguish between his mother and himself and if things don’t go the way he wants them, he’d have a tantrum. Although this song has a sense of uplifting warm feelings that represent a mother and a comfortable existence, simultaneously, it also brings out the realization of the independent entity of self.

20. BORDERLINE CASE
Like track 19, this song using a voice created by a synthesizer for the most part was played during sentimental [gatotsu911: Does he mean “psychedelic”?] scenes in the latter half. The melodies from these two songs were drastically arranged and reborn into a different BGM in THE END ~.

21. Expansion of Blockage
This is the most amazing BGM that is played dramatically throughout the TV series and the movies. It is no less than impressive that throughout this nearly 7 minute long BGM the pictures are perfectly in synch. Director Anno previously made a comment that he wanted to “break down the blockage” in his TV anime making. He thinks that one of the reasons why EVANGELION had such a huge success is that this blockage that he talked about synchronized with general society’s own blockage. Apparently the series jumped out from the frame of anime and became the EVANGELION boom; however, it’s not like it was delivered to society. More or less society stepped into the world of EVANGELION…? In contrast to the more open visual scenes (set aside either from self-ridicule or sarcasm), it is a title that conspicuously expresses something.

22. THE HEADY FEELING OF FREEDOM (OP Strings)
Although it came to such a climax when Episode 24 of EVANGELION was aired on TV, none of the mysteries were solved in the last show, Episode 25. Due to the consistent effort to portray an avant-garde, play-like depiction using experimental techniques, fans’ shock and confusion were not measurable. It was just like Shinji would say, “You have betrayed me!” However if you watch AIR and SINCERELY YOURS along with the last two episodes form the TV series, you’ll realize their stories have common story lines although their expression methods are different from each other. [gatotsu911: Score one for concurrency theorists!!] Coincidentally, we have put together Track 21 and 22’s strings, and Track 23 and 24’s piano’s beginnings and endings which are naturally connected to make a suite from the last two songs from the TV series and movies.

23. Good, or Don’t Be. (OP – 2D type)
Generally an instrumentally arranged opening theme is used very often in the film as a BGM, but in EVANGELION, only previously mentioned Track 22 and this one are used in the final episode. Therefore, this song would have become a suitable song to decorate the finale with such a sense of accomplishment. The TV series ended with the impact of destroying a stereotype that in an anime’s final episode everything has to be settled.

24. Opening of a Dream (Piano – Leave It To Version)
Shinji’s independence that he bid farewell to his mother and chose to live in the world fo others despite the fact that he would hurt others is portrayed in this song with a somewhat sad piano solo. It is as if it suggested the relationship between the project of EVANGELION and the audiences.

25. Komm, susser [gatotsu911: Where the hell is the umlaut key?] Tod / Come, Sweet Death
Opposite from the rhythmical arrangement, Director Anno’s lyrics have a sense of heartrending sorrow. MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM III ENCOUNTER IN SPACE (’82) is a project which used the song written by the general director in the crucial scene of the final version. The arranger for this song was Mr. Sagisu. These touching songs begin with a piano intro, and the strings with flowing style uplift them to be impressive projects. [gatotsu911: But why’s it in English? I wonder if he – or any Japanese viewer – is aware of how different the English lyrics are from Anno’s version? Was this song subtitled in the Japanese release? If so, did the subtitles reflect the Japanese or English lyrics?]

26. Everything you’ve ever dreamed
This CD concludes with this phantom song that we once planned to use as “one other possibility” along with Track 25. By the way, during the production of this album, we received news that Hollywood will shoot EVANGELION as a live action film. Who will play each character? Will EVA and Angels be drawn with computer graphics? (or played by people in rubber suits? Unlikely!) How about the view of the world? What about the story? And the music that will color the film… we’d like to look forward to it with you.


[gatotsu911: The following several pages consist of lyrics to the various vocal songs. I’ll skip over the listings for lyrics that are already in English.]

FLY ME TO THE MOON
Lyrics by Bart Howard Composed by Bart Howard Arranged by Toshiyuki O’mori
[…]

A Cruel Angel’s Thesis
Lyrics by Neko Oikawa Composed by Hidetoshi Sato Arranged by Toshiyuki O’mori Sung by Yoko Takahashi

Just like a cruel angel
Hey boy, let yourself become the myth

Even the blue wind knocks on the door of your heart
You just keep looking at me and smile
Touch it lightly, you are too absorbed with demanding your own needs
Helpless eyes, you don’t even know your own destiny, yet

But, you will realize someday that you have wings on your back to aim for a distant future

A Cruel Angel’s Thesis, you will fly away from the window someday with spouting hot pathos. If you betray the memory,
Hey boy, let yourself become the myth
Hold this universe and shine

Japanese
[gatotsu911: What follows are the Japanese lyrics, transliterated. I’ll skip those.]

Soul’s Refrain
Lyrics by Neko Oikawa Composed by Toshiyuki O’mori Arranged by Toshiyuki O’mori Sung by Yoko Takahashi

Come back to me, following memories
To the source of gentleness and dreams
In order to shine to the stars once again, and to be born
Soul’s refrain

Your naked skin, wrapped in blue shadows,
Trembles quietly in the moment of time
As if you’re asking for the whereabouts of life
Your fingertips search for me

The person of my destiny when I embraced is like an ephemeral flower that blooms in season
You’re leaving behind the secret of hope in your chest
Quickly scattering in a splendid form

Come back to me, before you’re born
To the land where you spent your time
Come back into my arms to meet again
Miracles do happen over and over
Soul’s refrain

When eyes are closed as if in prayer
The world simply disappears into the darkness
Even so, my heartbeat starts again
To look for a bounded eternity

Come back to me, following memories
To the source of gentleness and dreams.
You too, come back to love each other
Heart and body repeat
Soul’s refrain

Come back to me, before you’re born
To the land where you spent your time
Come back into my arms to meet again
Miracles to happen over and over
Soul’s refrain

Japanese
[…]

THANATOS – IF I CAN’T BE YOURS –
Lyrics by MASH Composed by Shiro Sagisu Arranged by Shiro Sagisu Sung by LOREN & MASH
[…]

Komm, susser Tod
Lyrics by Mike WYZGOWSKI Composed by Shiro Sagisu Arranged by Shiro Sagisu Sung by ARIANNE
[…]

Come, Sweet Death

I feel uneasy.
I feel uneasy.
I’m afraid of being hated by people.
I’m afraid of being hurt.
But I’m even more afraid of hurting other people.
But I hurt them.
I hurt the people I love.
Therefore I don’t fall in love.
So I hurt myself instead.
I don’t like myself.
I hate myself.
I mustn’t fall in love.
So I hurt myself.
Kindness is so cruel.
If I entrust my heart to others, I will be destroyed.
If our hearts cross, he’ll get hurt.
So, I have to destroy myself.
I have to return to nothing.
I shall return to nothing.
I shall return to nothing.
This is the place filled with kindness.
There is no real pain.
There is no wavering heart.
Let’s return to nothing.
Let’s return to nothing.
Let’s return to nothing where there are no others.
Let’s return to nothing.
Let’s return to nothing.
Let’s return to nothing – where
I don’t get hurt….(repeat)
(Original Japanese lyrics by Hideaki Anno)

Everything you’ve ever dreamed
Lyrics by Mike WYZGOWSKI Composed by Shiro Sagisu Arranged by Shiro Sagisu Sung by ARIANNE
[…]

Everything you’ve ever dreamed

What did you do to her? (chorus)
What did you want to do to her? (chorus)
I wanted to kiss her.
But instead I got hurt.
I hurt my feelings.

But,
I also hurt her feeling.
I hurt her much more.
My kindness hurt her.
Were you sad by hurting her? (chorus)
Did you suffer by hurting her? (chorus)

No.
I was happy to hurt her.
I enjoy hurting her.
So, she won’t forgive me.
I won’t forgive me either.
Because I learned of heartache
Then, why are you living? (chorus)
You should be dead.

Die, die, die, die. (chorus)

Why are you still living?
Because I’m still alive.
But, I can’t meet her.
Although I want to see her, I don’t.
I don’t have the strength to see her.
Since I hurt her, I should get hurt even more to be forgiven.
This is my punishment. [gatotsu911: An echo of Gendo’s final words?]

Death can’t atone for my sin.
I’m living for my atonement.
It’s okay to continue your life. (chorus)
I don’t care how you continue your life at your own convenience.
But, how are you atoning for your sin?

… I don’t know.
(Original Japanese lyrics by Hideaki Anno)


STAFF

Composed & Arranged by Shiro SAGISU
BGM-Entitled by Hideaki ANNO
Recorded & Mixed by Koichi SUZUKI, Hiroyuki TSUJI (KING SEKIGUCHIDAI ST)
Mastering Engineer: Seiji KANEKO (KING SEKIGUCHIDAI ST)

Illustrated by Ikuto YAMASHITA <Shinji>, Shinya HASEGAWA <KAORU>, Takeshi HONDA <Asuka>, Tadashi HIRAMATSU <Misato>, Kazuya TSURUMAKI <Rei>, MASAYUKI <TOUJI>

Designed by
Art Work Management: Eiji NAKAMURA (KING RECORDS)
Director: Takashi YOSHIOKA
Art Director: Norihiko NETSU (G-SQUARE)
Designer: Yuuki AKIYAMA (G-SQUARE)

Maker Director: Tomohiro OGAWA (KING RECORDS)
Promoter: Yousuke GOROMARU, Tomohiro YAMADA, Shinsuke ENDO (KING RECORDS)
Executive Producer: Toshimichi OTSUKI (KING RECORDS)

Special Thanks: Hiroki SATO, Kyoko MURAMATSU (GAINAX)
Yuji MATSUKURA (J.C. STAFF), Yuichiro OGURO (STUDIO YU)

Once again, for all children

US Staff
Executive Producer: Harry GOTO [GENEON ENTERTAINMENT (USA) INC.]
Producer: Nobu YAMAMOTO [GENEON ENTERTAINMENT (USA) INC.]
Associate Producer: Michiko POWERS [GENEON ENTERTAINMENT (USA) INC.]
Mastering: Mack ⋅ Nightjar
English Packaging: KGI ⋅ Koyo Graphic

Yoko Takahashi by the courtesy of KITTY ENTERPRISES, INC.
"I am shocked, SHOCKED, that a regular on an Evangelion forum would be a self-hating mess." - Tarnsman, paraphrased

"Jesus Christ, why are we even still talking about this shit?" - The Eva Monkey, summing up Evageeks in a sentence

Avatar: The Frozen Flame ~ Where Angels Lose Their Way

Azathoth
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Posts: 3495
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
Location: somewhere under noctis labyrinthus

Re: Refrain of Evangelion booklet transcript (at long last!!

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Azathoth » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:17 am

Thanks for posting this. Interesting stuff in here.

View Original Postgatotsu911 wrote:Komm, susser Tod
Lyrics by Mike WYZGOWSKI Composed by Shiro Sagisu Arranged by Shiro Sagisu Sung by ARIANNE
[…]

Come, Sweet Death

I feel uneasy.
I feel uneasy.
I’m afraid of being hated by people.
I’m afraid of being hurt.
But I’m even more afraid of hurting other people.
But I hurt them.
I hurt the people I love.
Therefore I don’t fall in love.
So I hurt myself instead.
I don’t like myself.
I hate myself.
I mustn’t fall in love.
So I hurt myself.
Kindness is so cruel.
If I entrust my heart to others, I will be destroyed.
If our hearts cross, he’ll get hurt.
So, I have to destroy myself.
I have to return to nothing.
I shall return to nothing.
I shall return to nothing.
This is the place filled with kindness.
There is no real pain.
There is no wavering heart.
Let’s return to nothing.
Let’s return to nothing.
Let’s return to nothing where there are no others.
Let’s return to nothing.
Let’s return to nothing.
Let’s return to nothing – where
I don’t get hurt….(repeat)
(Original Japanese lyrics by Hideaki Anno)


In contrast to the excellent (but rather unrelated to the show) lyrics of the "translation", this kind of grim mantra might as well be quoted from 25/26 - except for

I hate myself.
I mustn’t fall in love.
So I hurt myself.
Kindness is so cruel.
If I entrust my heart to others, I will be destroyed.
If our hearts cross, he’ll get hurt.


If our hearts cross, he’ll get hurt.


???

Is this supposed to be Asuka talking here?
Nothing is so valuable that it need not be started afresh, nothing is so rich that it need not be enriched constantly.

gatotsu911
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 1646
Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Location: US of East Coast
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby gatotsu911 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:26 pm

Yeah, that part was pretty weird. It seems pretty obviously to be about Shinji up until that line. I wonder if "he" was just a mistranslation?

But yes, the original lyrics, for better or worse, seem much closer to the "voice" of the show (i.e. Anno's). I've always wondered whether he was aware of how drastically they were altered in translation? The fact that some of the lines in KsT synch up to the onscreen action (famously, "My world is ending") seems to suggest that he was. But maybe not?
"I am shocked, SHOCKED, that a regular on an Evangelion forum would be a self-hating mess." - Tarnsman, paraphrased

"Jesus Christ, why are we even still talking about this shit?" - The Eva Monkey, summing up Evageeks in a sentence

Avatar: The Frozen Flame ~ Where Angels Lose Their Way

Xard
Sex God Bastard
Sex God Bastard
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 14187
Joined: Jan 03, 2008
Location: Finland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Xard » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:48 pm

However if you watch AIR and SINCERELY YOURS along with the last two episodes form the TV series, you’ll realize their stories have common story lines although their expression methods are different from each other.


score!!
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

SaltyJoe
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 1719
Joined: Apr 23, 2009
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby SaltyJoe » Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:50 pm

Considering that the beginning of the KsT sequence also marks the point when pre-Instrumentality mind brushings (mental touchings? partial mindmelds?) really kick into high gear (as signified by the clusterfuck montages that follow), the lyrics could be interpreted as a verbal mapping of some big, common stream of consciusness.

It's not like the words couldn't be applied to pretty much any character in the show with more than three spoken lines one way or the other, so i guess the lyrics are best attriubted to everybody and nobody at the same time.
Last edited by SaltyJoe on Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is too dark to read."

gatotsu911
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 1646
Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Location: US of East Coast
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby gatotsu911 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:03 pm

View Original PostSaltyJoe wrote:Considering that the beginning of the KsT sequence also marks the point when pre-Instrumentality mind brushings (mental touchings? partial mindmelds?) really kick into high gear (as signified by the clusterfuck montages that follow), the lyrics could be interpreted as a verbal mapping of some big, common stream of consciusness.

I think this interpretation works great - in fact, it's the one I subscribe to - with the final lyrics, but not quite so well with the Anno ones, which seem far more particular to Shinji.
"I am shocked, SHOCKED, that a regular on an Evangelion forum would be a self-hating mess." - Tarnsman, paraphrased

"Jesus Christ, why are we even still talking about this shit?" - The Eva Monkey, summing up Evageeks in a sentence

Avatar: The Frozen Flame ~ Where Angels Lose Their Way

SaltyJoe
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 30
Posts: 1719
Joined: Apr 23, 2009
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby SaltyJoe » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:29 pm

View Original Postgatotsu911 wrote:I think this interpretation works great - in fact, it's the one I subscribe to - with the final lyrics, but not quite so well with the Anno ones, which seem far more particular to Shinji.

Maybe, and maybe that "he" really is just a translation error, but i think the "all together" angle is also workable if we, for example, connect different lines with different characters (even if the lyrics could be "perforemd" by all of humanity at the moment, analyzing the lyrics would probably be done best through the filter of the principal cast. That "destroy myself" bit, for example, is more Rei-ish/Kaworu-ish than Shinji-ish, IMO, even though it could be applied to, again, most everyone in some way). Whatever, thanks for the transcripts anyway, it's cool stuff.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it is too dark to read."

Azathoth
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Posts: 3495
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
Location: somewhere under noctis labyrinthus

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Azathoth » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:14 pm

View Original PostSaltyJoe wrote:Maybe, and maybe that "he" really is just a translation error


Yeah, it's this. The line is:

心が触れ合えば、あの人は傷つく


Bolded is "ano hito", "that person", which would be more idiomatically translated as "he" or "she" but isn't itself a gendered word. I would guess the translator made the gender assumption by virtue of the female vocalist.
Nothing is so valuable that it need not be started afresh, nothing is so rich that it need not be enriched constantly.

gatotsu911
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 1646
Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Location: US of East Coast
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby gatotsu911 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:40 pm

Mystery solved!! Good going, Azathoth! Report back to headquarters for cookies and schnapps!!
"I am shocked, SHOCKED, that a regular on an Evangelion forum would be a self-hating mess." - Tarnsman, paraphrased

"Jesus Christ, why are we even still talking about this shit?" - The Eva Monkey, summing up Evageeks in a sentence

Avatar: The Frozen Flame ~ Where Angels Lose Their Way

C.A.P.
Wabbit Duelist
Wabbit Duelist
User avatar
Age: 25
Posts: 1994
Joined: Nov 25, 2010
Location: America
Gender: Male

Re: Refrain of Evangelion booklet transcript (at long last!!

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby C.A.P. » Wed Apr 27, 2011 7:21 pm

View Original Postgatotsu911 wrote:16. A Cruel Angel’s Thesis (TV Size Version)
Although Mr. Anno, the diretor planned to use “Danse Polovtsienne” (from the opera, Prince Igor by Alexander Borodin) as an opening song, the TV station was concerned that having a classical music tune as the opening song would be unclear for the starting of a TV anime show, and this song wasn’t used. The coordination of the song was done by the executive producer, Mr. Toshimichi “Danse Polovtsienne” (however, his name is not on the credits in the film). He requested to change the streaming melody into a crispy notching style in the demo stage. To support the atmosphere aimed by Mr. Ohtsuki for the opening direction, the anime staff pushed themselves with rapidly changing edits which reflect their amazing efforts and good sense. As per Director Anno’s request, we cut out the male chorus in order to emphasize maternal affection for the opening song. [gatotsu911: Now I kinda want to hear the unisex version


This part interests me the most. I recall reading somewhere that Ohtsuki (or someone else) approached Anno and told him he could do whatever with the show as long as he got to direct on the opening, but this flat out said Anno already had ideas what to do for and opening, along with the studio pretty much continuing to work on it once finished.

So now I'm curious on how much work went into the opening. I know it was made after the first two episodes were already done, but how long did it take? From the sounds of it, it took a while.
"Free-associative internet ravings know no proprietors."-Azathoth
"Cinema's value is that it is inhuman."-chee
"I only meant to stay a while."-ELO

Sailor Star Dust
Kept you waiting, huh?
Kept you waiting, huh?
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 22723
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: Living in Houston, TX
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:22 pm

For whatever it's worth: http://wiki.evageeks.org/Komm,_s%C3%BCsser_Tod

Reichu on Evageeks wiki wrote:If I entrust my heart to another, I'll be devastated in the end
If another heart touches my own, that person will be hurt


I own the Refrain of Evangelion CD, so I don't have much to say. (Though I recall typing up some of the song commentaries for some Concurrency discussion sometime back.)
~Take care of yourself, I need you~

gatotsu911
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 1646
Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Location: US of East Coast
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Refrain of Evangelion booklet transcript (at long last!!

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby gatotsu911 » Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:03 pm

View Original PostC.A.P. wrote:So now I'm curious on how much work went into the opening. I know it was made after the first two episodes were already done, but how long did it take? From the sounds of it, it took a while.

Hell, from the LOOKS of it it took a while. I mean, really, you've gotta just admire the craftsmanship of it, y'know?
"I am shocked, SHOCKED, that a regular on an Evangelion forum would be a self-hating mess." - Tarnsman, paraphrased

"Jesus Christ, why are we even still talking about this shit?" - The Eva Monkey, summing up Evageeks in a sentence

Avatar: The Frozen Flame ~ Where Angels Lose Their Way

Kendrix
Defender of Puppy Boy
Defender of Puppy Boy
User avatar
Age: 24
Posts: 5034
Joined: Jul 27, 2010
Location: Germany
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Kendrix » Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:07 am

"Maternal effection" for the opening song?
Maybe it's meant to be Misato singing (Who was once meant as teh secondary protagonist, before the female pilots came and stole her show)
Make Clone Love Not Clone War

Azathoth
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Posts: 3495
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
Location: somewhere under noctis labyrinthus

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Azathoth » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:05 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:"Maternal effection" for the opening song?
Maybe it's meant to be Misato singing (Who was once meant as teh secondary protagonist, before the female pilots came and stole her show)


There's a version somewhere with Hayashibara, Miyamura, and Mitsuishi each singing a verse, which suggests to me at least that it was composed with all three in mind.
Nothing is so valuable that it need not be started afresh, nothing is so rich that it need not be enriched constantly.

Xard
Sex God Bastard
Sex God Bastard
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 14187
Joined: Jan 03, 2008
Location: Finland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Xard » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:20 am

I always associated OP with Misato
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

gatotsu911
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 1646
Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Location: US of East Coast
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby gatotsu911 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:29 pm

And not Yui? Or an omniscient narrator?
"I am shocked, SHOCKED, that a regular on an Evangelion forum would be a self-hating mess." - Tarnsman, paraphrased

"Jesus Christ, why are we even still talking about this shit?" - The Eva Monkey, summing up Evageeks in a sentence

Avatar: The Frozen Flame ~ Where Angels Lose Their Way

gwern
Ireul
Ireul
User avatar
Age: 88
Posts: 667
Joined: Jun 02, 2010
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby gwern » Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:58 pm

Well, I'm pleased as punch to see this thread. (Pardon my delay, gatotsu, I didn't see it until one of my RSS feeds pulled it up because of the mention of my name. You could have pinged the original thread.) I've made my usual Markdown copy, and crossposted copies and announcements at http://eva.onegeek.org/pipermail/evangelion/2011-April/006921.html and http://revolutionofevangelion.org/forum/index.php?topic=699.0

--------

As far as thoughts on the content goes.

First, I originally wondered about who the author was, which affects how one's regards the Concurrency and other key quotes. My thoughts after reading it:

1. This is clearly not written by Anno or Tsurumaki or Masayuki. The language is too deferential and tentative. For example:

It is a digression, but I was told that a pattern on Zeruel's body imitates the silhouette of a human face's profile...

2. I'm fairly certain it's not by Sagisu either. It'd be weird for Sagisu, even if writing in the third person, to write something like

This song has an unusual musical tune for EVANGELION; however, since Mr. Sagisu also participated in the music composition for the nationally acclaimed variety TV program "Waratte Iitomo!", this type of music is also his cup of tea.


And again, there is tentativeness I would not expect from Sagisu; eg.

This one is also a cheerful song with the country style to bring out the charming point of Asuka's unyielding spirit. Further, Asuka'S THEME was played for Rei's appearance scene as a transfer student in the World of Possibility, the last episode of the TV series, and Misato'S THEME was played when Asuka was introduced as Shinji's childhood friend. I wonder if these are also an audio indicator for giving the suggestion of "another possibility."[/quotThe coordination of the song was done by the executive producer, Mr. Toshimichi Ohtsuki (however, his name is not on the credits in the film). He requested to change the streaming melody into a crispy notching style in the demo stage. To support the atmosphere aimed by Mr. Ohtsuki for the opening direction, the anime staff pushed themselves with rapidly changing edits which reflect their amazing efforts and good sense. As per Director Anno's request, we cut out the male chorus in order to emphasize maternal affection for the opening song.


The above quote is also very interesting for giving a specific name to the imaginary world which I hadn't known before, and for what it suggests about the characters.
3. If I had to guess who the writer *is*, I would guess it is a worker at King Records. They speak in detail of editing the songs, which is not a Gainax functionality (I don't recall any music department in The Notenki Memoirs, though that shows little) and they speak of themselves as completely separate from the animation staff and as acting at Anno's 'request':

The coordination of the song was done by the executive producer, Mr. Toshimichi Ohtsuki (however, his name is not on the credits in the film). He requested to change the streaming melody into a crispy notching style in the demo stage. To support the atmosphere aimed by Mr. Ohtsuki for the opening direction, the anime staff pushed themselves with rapidly changing edits which reflect their amazing efforts and good sense. As per Director Anno's request, we cut out the male chorus in order to emphasize maternal affection for the opening song.


Or, from just after the Concurrency quote - which reads as a King Records staffer commenting on how they edited the pieces available to them and not as a composer like Sagisu who can freely rearrange and rewrite:

Coincidentally, we have put together Track 21 and 22's strings, and Track 23 and 24's piano's beginnings and endings which are naturally connected to make a suite from the last two songs from the TV series and movies.


On the other hand, a few uses of 'we' ring hollow for a King Records staffer:

By the way, during the production of this album, we received news that Hollywood will shoot EVANGELION as a live action film.


Why would a KR staffer be receiving news about this? That's more of a Gainax matter. Was this news even public when the booklet was presumably being written in February/March/April 2003?

4. If we look at the production credits, there's quite a collection of companies represented. But King Records, unsurprisingly, seems to be in charge. (They managed the artwork, and Otsuki was executive producer as usual.) Gainax is largely unmentioned, except for 2 staffers mentioned as just special thanks, neither one a big name. (Have you heard of Sato or Muramatsu before? I haven't.)

So I read this as Otsuki or another King Records staffer involved in the songs' production & editing wrote the booklet, and asked the 2 thanked Gainax staffers various details and questions.

This accounts for the general tone, the speculation, the lack of small details or anecdotes no outsider could guess, why the Gainaxers were only thanked, the knowledge of Sagisu's non-Gainax work, makes sense from a corporate workflow point of view, and so on.

----------

OK, distribution & authorship done, let's look at the raw content.
1. Suiten for Violoncello solo Nr. 1 G-dur, BWV. 1007 1. Vorspier

This is the opening for EVANGELION: DEATH and an introductory part of Bach's unaccompanied cello suite #1 played by a boy who looked just like Shinji.


Huh? Looks just like Shinji? I don't recall anyone ever suggesting that the little concert in Death was not Shinji but someone who just looked identical to him...
Before trying to interpret further, I'd want confirmation that the literal translation says the same thing. As gatotsu points out in some of his comments, this translation is not 100% perfect.

This BGM was played also when the Strategic Self Defense Forces attack the NERV HQ. The established ferocious image of the BGM actually emphasizes that the enemy for humans are other humans.


This is very interesting to me since it ties in to the bloodtype blue allusion to Blue Christmas and the flamethrower EoE allusions to The Battle of Okinawa. With this, I'd say it's pretty clear that one of the intended subtexts of NGE was that humanity was more vicious and alien than the aliens, the Angels. Very good to know.

As the title indicates, this song is used mainly in the scenes where the EVA unit goes out of control just like a beast.


You really shouldn't be surprised, gatotsu. I've been saying for years at this point that many of the religious meanings people see in NGE are far more shallow than they appear, or aren't even there in the first place. 'The Beast' is just another one (and backed up by Mari's animalistic changes in Rebuild).

Keeping that in mind, it could be the groundwork for later when the Angels split their angelic forms into separate parts such as wings, halo and human-like body to try to contact Asuka, Rei and Shinji.


Maybe it's been too long since I watched NGE TV, but this comment about 'The Beast II' doesn't make much sense to me.

This one is also a cheerful song with the country style to bring out the charming point of Asuka's unyielding spirit. Further, Asuka'S THEME was played for Rei's appearance scene as a transfer student in the World of Possibility, the last episode of the TV series, and Misato'S THEME was played when Asuka was introduced as Shinji's childhood friend. I wonder if these are also an audio indicator for giving the suggestion of "another possibility."


See previous comment. I've long thought that Rei is romantically out of the question for Shinji since she is Yui in a sense; but Rei has no connection to the (living) Yui in the World of Possibility, and there she's given Asuka's song and acts a bit Asuka-ish, and Asuka instead gets Misato's (the would-be mother-figure) song instead...

How often do the 'childhood friend' characters win the protagonist over the new girl in the canonical end of the manga/anime/game? I'm not sure, but I don't think it's very often.

So, interesting. The final line is also a little mysterious since later the writer specifically points out how they did have a possibility song in EoE, EYED:

This CD concludes with this phantom song that we once planned to use as "one other possibility" along with Track 25.


Probably just meant that the differing songs were meant to signal characters which were importantly different in the World of Possibility, and that EYED was simply an alternative. (Not quite satisfactory, since there wasn't room in EoE for both KsT and EYED, but whatever. As already pointed out, the translation probably isn't the best.)

To support the atmosphere aimed by Mr. Ohtsuki for the opening direction, the anime staff pushed themselves with rapidly changing edits which reflect their amazing efforts and good sense.


Really, we have Otsuki to thank for that? Very interesting. I wonder how much of the NGE visual style developed in imitation of the opening, which was developed to match Otsuki's 'atmosphere'?

Director Anno previously made a comment that he wanted to "break down the blockage" in his TV anime making. He thinks that one of the reasons why EVANGELION had such a huge success is that this blockage that he talked about synchronized with general society's own blockage. Apparently the series jumped out from the frame of anime and became the EVANGELION boom; however, it's not like it was delivered to society. More or less society stepped into the world of EVANGELION...? In contrast to the more open visual scenes (set aside either from self-ridicule or sarcasm), it is a title that conspicuously expresses something.


See also Tsurumaki's interview in the RCB. Not sure what the last sentence means. Is it trying to say that while the visual are not narrowly pointing to one interpretation, the title is specific and does point to just one interpretation? I could buy that. Anno may speak in a visual language, but it's one that is variously interpreted, as years of Eva discussion has demonstrat4ed.

Although it came to such a climax when Episode 24 of EVANGELION was aired on TV, none of the mysteries were solved in the last show, Episode 25. Due to the consistent effort to portray an avant-garde, play-like depiction using experimental techniques, fans' shock and confusion were not measurable. It was just like Shinji would say, "You have betrayed me!"


Haha. That's so great. I need to quote this on Wikipedia somewhere.

However if you watch AIR and SINCERELY YOURS along with the last two episodes form the TV series, you'll realize their stories have common story lines although their expression methods are different from each other.


Ah, the Concurrency quote! I see someone on EML has already objected, but the sentence is pretty clear. The 'story lines' are 'common'. They share the same basic plot. This isn't describing a plot that takes 'a different tack' or that only shares the 'overall theme' - the story lines are common. (Be good to have a double-checked translation on this, though.)

Therefore, this song would have become a suitable song to decorate the finale with such a sense of accomplishment. The TV series ended with the impact of destroying a stereotype that in an anime's final episode everything has to be settled....Shinji's independence that he bid farewell to his mother and chose to live in the world of others despite the fact that he would hurt others is portrayed in this song with a somewhat sad piano solo. It is as if it suggested the relationship between the project of EVANGELION and the audiences.


The analogy is obviously that the viewers are Shinji; rather than stay in a harmless dream world (watching anime), we need to leave for the real world. It's 'sad' to leave because anime is truly enjoyable, but it's only 'somewhat' because the real world is, on balance, better. And notice that the TV ending is described as one that ought to have a feeling of 'accomplishment'. This does not work with the 1984/Brazil interpretation at all!

Opposite from the rhythmical arrangement, Director Anno's lyrics have a sense of heartrending sorrow. MOBILE SUIT GUNDAM III ENCOUNTER IN SPACE ('82) is a project which used the song written by the general director in the crucial scene of the final version.


Opposite indeed! This commentary is a disappointment from my point of view because it doesn't much help with interpreting the song or the choking scene (I already knew it was a crucial scene!) or the beach scene, although the Gundam thing is interesting - I'll have to check it out sometime. (Wikipedia tells me little besides it being some sort of compilation movie.)

gatotsu, I think there were no subtitles. There often aren't, and in all the emails on the EML I've read from EoE's theatrical release, I don't recall any mentioning subtitles for KsT.

What we really ought to do is track down Mike Wyzgowski and ask him some questions. (So many questions - was he supposed to elaborate the KsT lyrics like that? Whose POV did he think it was from? Who was Arianne? Was he told anything to help write the translation?)

Some quick googling led me to a defunct Myspace page; some more led me to a former British collaborator, Dave Livingston http://www.dymension.net/page114.html who is reachable through email http://www.dymension.net/page4.html

Something to think about, anyway. Mike seems to still be quite active in the anime space judging by all his recent credits: http://vgmdb.net/artist/9774

Finally, at first I thought the lyrics for EYED and KsT were the same as on the wiki, but they're not! This means more work for me. :) So now we have 3 translations of Anno's original KsT lyrics and 2 of EYED's original lyrics....

At first glance, the booklet's literal translation makes more sense than Reichu's. For example, the booklet has as the conclusion of EYED:

But, how are you atoning for your sin?

... I don't know.


While Reichu translated that as

But how do you intend to make up for everything?

...I don't understand.


"I don't know" makes more sense as a response to the Chorus's question than "I don't understand".

Anyway, if you want to compare KsT and EYED side by side, you can see them at http://www.gwern.net/komm-susser-tod#lyrics and http://www.gwern.net/komm-susser-tod#everything-youve-ever-dreamed respectively.

------------

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:Bolded is "ano hito", "that person", which would be more idiomatically translated as "he" or "she" but isn't itself a gendered word. I would guess the translator made the gender assumption by virtue of the female vocalist.


Many thanks for the correction. I was puzzling over it as well since the 2 other translations were both ungendered.

View Original PostC.A.P. wrote:This part interests me the most. I recall reading somewhere that Ohtsuki (or someone else) approached Anno and told him he could do whatever with the show as long as he got to direct on the opening, but this flat out said Anno already had ideas what to do for and opening, along with the studio pretty much continuing to work on it once finished.

So now I'm curious on how much work went into the opening. I know it was made after the first two episodes were already done, but how long did it take? From the sounds of it, it took a while.


Hm, I'm not sure where this story comes from. It doesn't sound like the understanding recorded by Takeda in http://www.gwern.net/docs/2002-notenki-memoirs#evangelion-eve

And I suppose the answer is which OP are we talking about? There's more than one; look at http://www.evacommentary.org/full-op/full-op.html

Anyway. I'm done. What a lot of text I've posted! But then again, you don't get such an interesting source every week, so it's worth doing a good job.

NemZ
Token Misanthrope
Token Misanthrope
User avatar
Posts: 15804
Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Location: St. Louis
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby NemZ » Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:45 pm

However if you watch AIR and SINCERELY YOURS along with the last two episodes form the TV series, you'll realize their stories have common story lines although their expression methods are different from each other.

Ah, the Concurrency quote! I see someone on EML has already objected, but the sentence is pretty clear. The 'story lines' are 'common'. They share the same basic plot. This isn't describing a plot that takes 'a different tack' or that only shares the 'overall theme' - the story lines are common. (Be good to have a double-checked translation on this, though.)


Heh, nice to know I count as somebody.

Anyway, seeing as the translation is in question elsewhere I see no reason to place much faith in the nuances of this one line written anonymously ten years after the fact by someone who was probably not involved in the production in the first place.

If for some reason you really want extra-canonical anonymous semi-official sources (and I don't see why you need them, honestly) it makes MUCH more sense to look to the theatrical program book (RCB) which says repeatedly that they aren't concurrent.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

Sailor Star Dust
Kept you waiting, huh?
Kept you waiting, huh?
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 22723
Joined: Aug 13, 2006
Location: Living in Houston, TX
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:05 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:There's a version somewhere with Hayashibara, Miyamura, and Mitsuishi each singing a verse, which suggests to me at least that it was composed with all three in mind.


Yeah. A few years back I took the time to pinpoint which seiyuu sang which part here http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=7040 (for Fly Me To The Moon, too) since to my knowledge nobody bothered with that yet.

gwern wrote:Probably just meant that the differing songs were meant to signal characters which were importantly different in the World of Possibility, and that EYED was simply an alternative. (Not quite satisfactory, since there wasn't room in EoE for both KsT and EYED, but whatever. As already pointed out, the translation probably isn't the best.)


The "one other possibility" comment is regarding whether or not Komm Susser Tod or EYED was going to be used for the Instrumentality sequence. Komm Susser Tod does fit better, but it's a shame that EYED didn't make it's way as the ending credits for Video Version Movie Episode 26'. (I'm confused on why you're bringing up "world of possibility" when it was about the Misato track and this is commentary about EYED.)

gatotsu911 wrote:Was this song subtitled in the Japanese release? If so, did the subtitles reflect the Japanese or English lyrics?


They were thinking of subtitling the song in Japanese (which as I understand it, would have been Anno's lyrics, not the translation of the English adaption) but for whatever reason that didn't happen. Perhaps they were going to only subtitle KST for the Video Version?

Xard: I already brought up the relevant quotes for concurrency over here http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=386469#386469 (also includes the RCB quotes NemZ's referring to), that shouldn't be a surprise. :tongue:
~Take care of yourself, I need you~

gatotsu911
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 1646
Joined: Dec 17, 2010
Location: US of East Coast
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby gatotsu911 » Sun May 01, 2011 3:16 pm

@Gwern: Glad to be of service!
LAWL, your thread on OTHER SITE (seriously, there's a word filter for that? I thought we were the mature ones) got locked for linking to EGF. Oh, V, you silly, silly egomaniac.

Regarding authorship: I had assumed it was somebody at Gainax based on their extensive familiarity with the series and knowledge of the LAEM, but the points you raise pointing to someone at King Records are... interesting. I doubt it's likely, but can we say with confidence that the booklet doesn't have multiple authors?

Gwern wrote:Huh? Looks just like Shinji? I don't recall anyone ever suggesting that the little concert in Death was not Shinji but someone who just looked identical to him... Before trying to interpret further, I'd want confirmation that the literal translation says the same thing

I'd assumed the author meant that the actual cello player for this piece - as in, the real-life person who played the recording - happened to be a kid who looked like Shinji. I don't think it's a translation error.

Gwern wrote:With this, I'd say it's pretty clear that one of the intended subtexts of NGE was that humanity was more vicious and alien than the aliens, the Angels.

Don't the bridge bunnies all but come right out and say this in EoE? The film isn't terribly subtle about driving this particular message home - not that it doesn't do so effectively. I'm curious where you found out about the Blue Christmas and Battle of Okinawa connections, though. In fact, I've never even heard of Blue Christmas.

Gwern wrote:You really shouldn't be surprised, gatotsu. I've been saying for years at this point that many of the religious meanings people see in NGE are far more shallow than they appear, or aren't even there in the first place. 'The Beast' is just another one (and backed up by Mari's animalistic changes in Rebuild).

I guess I'm not surprised, but then again this isn't Anno talking either, and he seems to be the lone mastermind behind all the religious allusions in the series. Regardless of whether he meant any profound symbolism by it, I find it hard to believe he wasn't aware of the Christian connotations of "The Beast" when he coined the track name/English episode title. Bizarre as the show's use of Judeo-Christian symbolism may be, it's nothing if not well-researched.

Gwern wrote:Maybe it's been too long since I watched NGE TV, but this comment about 'The Beast II' doesn't make much sense to me.

Yeah, I wasn't quite sure about that part either. I imagine he's referring to the manner in which the three subsequent Angels' attacks on the pilots are more personal and psychological in nature, compared to most of the previous ones' more external modes of attack. It's... an interesting idea.

Gwern wrote:How often do the 'childhood friend' characters win the protagonist over the new girl in the canonical end of the manga/anime/game? I'm not sure, but I don't think it's very often.

Really? I thought it was most of the time, but then I tend to avoid harem series like the plague. Actually, let me fix that: the first potential love interest the protagonist (whether male or female) meets (in the story, not chronologically) is always the one they end up with. Always. (Except for Evangelion.) Anyway, the switching of the themes is an interesting point, but it's one of those things I'm not sure how deeply to read into. I guess I'd agree with the general sentiment that it symbolizes the characters' altered personalities and roles in the "other world", but I'm not sure if I would get Freudian on it.

Gwern wrote:So, interesting. The final line is also a little mysterious since later the writer specifically points out how they did have a possibility song in EoE, EYED:

Yeah, I noticed that too. Cryptic. How exactly "EYED" was originally intended to be used is probably one of the more pressing unanswered questions of the series for me (of the unanswered questions that actually have answers). This has me wondering, actually: has anyone ever tried synching up EYED with the "alternate reality" live-action sequence (the one that was cut) in EoE?

Gwern wrote:Really, we have Otsuki to thank for that? Very interesting. I wonder how much of the NGE visual style developed in imitation of the opening, which was developed to match Otsuki's 'atmosphere'?

Yeah, that's strange. I kinda wonder about it, actually. As I recall (having myself not seen the series in years) the show used "flash montages" as early as the first couple episodes - they're definitely an Anno-ism. I find it hard to believe that he wasn't involved in the construction of the title sequence.

Gwern wrote:See also Tsurumaki's interview in the RCB. Not sure what the last sentence means.

I have no idea what he means with the "visual scene" part, but I think I understand what he means when he says that the series "conspicuously expresses something". In contrast to most anime, especially at the time, (hell, in contrast to most entertainment, period) Evangelion took people aback because it had a voice, and ideas, and a purpose. Its intent may have at times been opaque, but it unmistakably was... expressing something. It was far more human than its contemporaries (and, quite honestly, most of its successors) - disconcertingly so, even. To paraphrase Carl Horn from an ANN podcast way back yonder, most anime wear masks, but Evangelion took off the mask, and this at the time was unprecedented and startling. From a certain perspective it's really no surprise that the series rattled Japanese pop culture to its roots: in a culture that's all about masks, Evangelion was a striking, passionate and furious face - one that you couldn't forget if you tried.

Re: Mike Wyzgowski: For all we know he's never even seen Evangelion! Judging by his credits, though, it looks like he must be a friend/collaborator of Shiro Sagisu in particular (as opposed to working in anime generally). Incidentally, the other night while channel surfing I caught an episode of Bleach on Adult Swim, and in one scene they were playing an English choral piece in the background that sounded like it had been plucked right out of Rebuild of Evangelion. Which, incidentally, I did not until now know that Wyzgowski had been brought back for. (and I scanned those credits, I did!!) By the way, do you know whether he also did the English lyrics for "Escape to the Beginning" from EoE?
"I am shocked, SHOCKED, that a regular on an Evangelion forum would be a self-hating mess." - Tarnsman, paraphrased

"Jesus Christ, why are we even still talking about this shit?" - The Eva Monkey, summing up Evageeks in a sentence

Avatar: The Frozen Flame ~ Where Angels Lose Their Way


Return to “Evangelion Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests