Evangelion 2.0 CRC: Anno Interview

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby TonyTH » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:50 am

I know I'm just a lurker guy around here, but I wanted to thank you as well for the translating. Very good reads, so thanks for taking the time for all of us!

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Postby Kendrix » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:53 am

View Original Postpenguintruth wrote:It looks like he basically admitted he wasn't fully committed to Mari.


Not exactly. She WAS meant to have a role from Q onwards, they just introduced her earlier.

I think making 1.x the way it was was the right choice - you have to produce ppls expectations before you can subvert them. It's meant to be EVA, not a completely new anime. They need to establish the 'old eva feel' before they can destroy it, and the intention of Rebuild, or at least of what rebuild eventually became IS at least partially a reply to EVA and the effect it had...

Oh and Number-kun, good job! You're doing something incredible for this comunity!
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:48 pm

If the Rebuild series ends & Mari hasn't done anything but feature in a few Eva battles then maybe I'll buy he had no idea what to do with Mari.

She was introduced in 2.0. Her role in the story at that point was ancillary since she was off on her own doing her own thing. She's clearly working with Kaji (there's a lot of correspondences between the character throughout the film, hell, they even both put their faces right up to Shinji's back to back in the story- Mari: You smell like LCL. Kaji: I'm a gonna kiss you! Lol. No I'm not.") & has some role to play in the upcoming films. I've enjoyed her so far & look forward to what they'll do with her character in 3.0.

It's not like anyone is accusing Anno of not knowing what the hell to do with Kaworu even though the character has spent 2 films just dropping cryptic lines of dialogue to be picked apart by the fanbase. That's because the NGE audience KNOW that Kaworu's role is to come later in the narrative.

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Postby NAveryW » Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:32 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:I think making 1.x the way it was was the right choice - you have to produce ppls expectations before you can subvert them.
I think too much value is placed on subversion, particularly if it's done only for its own sake. Either you've seen Neon Genesis Evangelion already or you haven't (or you've seen some of it). If you have, you're probably familiar with its tendency to "pull the rug out" and will completely expect it to do that upon going into a new version. Hence the "It's setting stuff up so it can destroy it later" doesn't work as well the second time around. And if you haven't seen NGE yet, you're not familiar with what was done before and the significance of the changes is lost on you.

I don't consider 1.0 problematic, but I do consider the "It's setting things up so it can destroy them later" defenses people give for complaints about the new movies flawed. If you're expecting them to be destroyed, it's not surprising or shocking when it happens, defeating the ostensible point of the setup.
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Postby Kendrix » Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:43 pm

View Original PostNAveryW wrote:I think too much value is placed on subversion, particularly if it's done only for its own sake. Either you've seen Neon Genesis Evangelion already or you haven't (or you've seen some of it). If you have, you're probably familiar with its tendency to "pull the rug out" and will completely expect it to do that upon going into a new version. Hence the "It's setting stuff up so it can destroy it later" doesn't work as well the second time around. And if you haven't seen NGE yet, you're not familiar with what was done before and the significance of the changes is lost on you.

I don't consider 1.0 problematic, but I do consider the "It's setting things up so it can destroy them later" defenses people give for complaints about the new movies flawed. If you're expecting them to be destroyed, it's not surprising or shocking when it happens, defeating the ostensible point of the setup.


Well, it's not Anno's fault that he didn't have the idea of doing a new interpretation eather than a simple remake earlier - and to be frank, the prologue arc is awesome. Why change any of it?
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Postby Azathoth » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:21 pm

View Original PostNAveryW wrote:I think too much value is placed on subversion, particularly if it's done only for its own sake. Either you've seen Neon Genesis Evangelion already or you haven't (or you've seen some of it). If you have, you're probably familiar with its tendency to "pull the rug out" and will completely expect it to do that upon going into a new version. Hence the "It's setting stuff up so it can destroy it later" doesn't work as well the second time around. And if you haven't seen NGE yet, you're not familiar with what was done before and the significance of the changes is lost on you.

I don't consider 1.0 problematic, but I do consider the "It's setting things up so it can destroy them later" defenses people give for complaints about the new movies flawed. If you're expecting them to be destroyed, it's not surprising or shocking when it happens, defeating the ostensible point of the setup.


QFT. There was already a perfectly good series and a perfectly good movie to establish what NGE was like. To me, 1.0 feels like a "we might change things up later if this does well, but for now let's hedge our bets and keep things simple."
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Postby Kendrix » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:31 am

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:QFT. There was already a perfectly good series and a perfectly good movie to establish what NGE was like. To me, 1.0 feels like a "we might change things up later if this does well, but for now let's hedge our bets and keep things simple."


I'd rather believe the interview, it IS believable, with Anno being, uh himself. It was meant to be polished-up remake with a beefed-up budget once, but then he saw that ppl were actually full of expectations and chose to give them some cool new stuff...
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Postby Warren Peace » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:19 am

...and who would argue with that? Would anyone really have preferred 2.X be a clip show of scenes from NGE? Win, lose, or draw, 2.X took a more interesting path.

Mari has been referred to again and again as the character that will "destroy Evangelion"... whatever that means. Obviously they have some idea of her purpose.

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Postby 1731298478 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:28 am

Here is my attempt at part two of Anno's interview. The usual disclaimers apply. Corrections and suggestions are highly appreciated. Many thanks as always to Reichu for the scans ^__^

------

改稿に改稿を重ね、難航したシナリオ
A script bogged down in revisions upon revisions

---そのシナリオ作業は、非常に大変な改訂が重なったそうですね。
--- It seems that during the scriptwriting process an enormous number of serious revisions accumulated.

庵野 そうですね。『破』は大小含めろと計四十回以上、脚本の改稿を重ねています。その最初の大きいな変更は、まだ『序』と並行作業していた二〇〇六年の十一月から十二月頭にありました。
Anno: Yeah. Counting both large and small revisions, there was a total of more than forty revisions of the script. The first major changes took place from November 2006 to the start of December, while we were still working on "Prelude."

---それはどんな変更だったのでしょうか。
--- What sort of changes were those?

庵野 3号機のテストパイロットがアスカになったことです。それまではトウジが被験者というTVシリーズの流れのままでした。ただ違うところは、シンジがすでに知っているという点ですね。全体的にそれまでのシナリオではミサトと加持の大人っぽい描写とか、アスカの母への確執とか、アスカが加持に憧れていたり早々にヒカリと仲良くなるとか、いろいろと旧作っぽいニュアンス、テイストがあったんです。また、このころのクライマックスは加持に諭されたシンジが初号機で出撃し、その後レイのシンジを助けるための自己犠牲があり、その悲しみに直面したシンジの心が耐えきれず初号機が暴走するという、TVシリーズの第拾九話と第弐拾参話を合成したような話の流れでした。脚本の第5稿までがその段取りで書かれています。『序』の公開以前にすでに発注済みで第1稿が上がっていたCパートまでの画コンテは、だいたいこの第5稿までをもとに書かれています。
Anno: Asuka became the test pilot for Unit-03. Up until that point Touji had been the test subject, just as in the TV series. The only difference was that Shinji knew that in advance. Up to that point, the script as a whole was filled with various "nuances" reminding of, or "tastes" of, the original series: an "adult" depiction of Kaji and Misato, Asuka's discord with her mother, Asuka's idolization of Kaji and her immediate friendship with Hikari, and so on. In addition, the climax around this time was a kind of synthesis between episodes 19 and 23 of the TV series, where Shinji would be persuaded by Kaji to launch in Unit-01 and Rei would sacrifice herself in order to save Shinji; faced with this grief, Shinji's heart would be unable to bear it, and Unit-01 would go out of control. The drafts up to number five were written according to this plan. [The first draft storyboards up to part C that were requested before the premiere of "Prelude" were generally based upon the drafts of the script written up to this point. ???]

---変わったきっかけは、何だったのでしょう。
--- What was the impetus for the change?

庵野 大きかったのはマッキー(鶴巻和哉監督の愛称)からの意見ですね。「これはただのTVシリーズの総集編で『映画』にならない」と。あと「アスカに映画的役割がほしい。このままではただ顔見せ的に出てくるだけで主人公のシンジに対して何もドラマを与えていないというか、絡んでいない」と。それに「ストーリーとしても旧作との変化が足りない」と矢継ぎ早に話されて。それには「3号機にアスカが乗るくらいの荒療治が必要ではないか」とも話していました。これは、大きな基礎変更となろので何人ものスタッフ意見をリサーチしたところ、賛否両論だったと思います。特に轟木(一騎)が猛反対していましたね。で、考えた末、最終的には鶴巻案を取り入れて3号機パイロットの変更を決めました。それが脚本の第6稿ですね。二〇〇七年の正月明け、一月八日に出していました。この稿では、まだ単純に被験者をトウジからアスカに入れ替えているだけで、その理由も「新パイロットのマリがユーロから本部に赴任して、2号機を降ろされそうなので自ら志願する」という実に行き当たりばったりな感じでした。キャラもシチュエーションも練り込まれないまま、テストパイロットの変更だけを取ってつけた状態です。
Anno: The big thing was the comments made by Makki (Director Kazuya Tsurumaki's pet name). "For this, we can't make films just by summarizing the TV series." He also said, "I want Asuka to have a 'film-like' role. At this rate, she will just be making an appearance - she provides no drama vis-a-vis Shinji, the protagonist; she is not involved." Furthermore, "As a story, it's not different enough from the original series" - all these in succession. He further said, "Isn't a change as drastic as having Asuka pilot Unit-03 necessary?" I think, because this was a major, fundamental change, opinion was divided when I researched the views of a number of staff members. (Ikki) Todoroki, in particular, was tremendously opposed. After thinking about it, I ultimately adopted Tsurumaki's proposal and decided to change the pilot of Unit-03. That was the sixth draft of the script. It was finished following the 2007 new year, on January 8th. In this draft, the test pilot was simply changed from Touji to Asuka, [and the reason for it - Mari, the new pilot, is reassigned to NERV HQ from Europe, and Asuka will be taken off of Unit-02, so she volunteers - was really just improvised. ?] The change of test pilot was forced into the draft, with the characters and situations left unaltered.

で、当然、鶴巻から「TV版のトウジを失ったときと同等のショックと喪失感をシンジ、及び観客に与えねばなりません。そのためにはアスカを思い切って『良いキャラ』として描いていしまうことで、その喪失感を大きく見せたいと考えます」といった提案メモが来て、「うん。それはそうだよな」と。なので、アスカがレイやシンジのため、他人のために何かすることを3号機に乗る理由にしようと。鶴巻の言うところの死亡フラグが立っていく感じですね。結果、3号機にアスカが乗るところを彼女のドラマのピークとすることになりました。あとはそこに合わせて脚本をあちこち変えていました。レイが料理を覚えシンジとゲンドウのために食事会を用意する話と、アスカが3号機に乗るキッカケを絡めるとか、アスカのキャラもセイフなど含め徐々に固定されていった感じでしたね。
So, naturally, I received, and agreed with, a proposal memo sent out by Tsurumaki, which said, "We have to provide Shinji, as well as the audience, with the same degree of shock and sense of loss as when Touji was lost in the TV series. For that reason, by boldly portraying Asuka as a 'good character', I hope to greatly convey that sense of loss." Because of that, I wanted to have Asuka pilot Unit-03 in order to do something for Rei, and Shinji, and others - something for other people. As Tsurumaki put it, it's like a "death flag" is raised. As a result, Asuka piloting Unit-03 ended up being made into the "peak" of her drama. I changed various parts of the script in accordance with this. For example, Asuka's impetus for piloting Unit-03 would connect with the story of Rei [learning to cook and?] preparing a dinner party for Shinji and Gendou. It seemed like these things, as well as Asuka's character, dialogue, and so on, had gradually become solidifed.

マリ以外のCパートまでのストーリーやドラマの流れは、二〇〇七年三月十一日付の脚本第11稿でフィルムと変わらない大まかな形ができています。しかし、Dパートはまだ旧作の流れに沿ったままでした。そこでは第11稿に至るまで、第10の使徒戦での2号機をどうするのかなど、段取りが二転三転しています。「作画や現場に負担がかかるので、いっそのこと2号機を出さない」という鶴巻案から、「マリが乗っている」となり、さらに「意識を失ったアスカをダミーシステムで2号機に乗せる]段取りになって一度落ち着いています。そのラインで本稿は書かれていました。2号機、零号機が敗れてから展開は「使徒に捕食・融合されたレイが初号機のシンジをも取り込もうとして、それに気づいたレイが自爆する」という旧作の流れを踏襲した感じでした。この段階で、いったん脚本作業は止まっています。「今、目の前にある危機」である『序』の作業に集中しないといけなかったので。確か、この稿でシンちゃん(樋口真嗣の愛称)にイメージボードやラストの戦闘シーンの画コンテを一度発注していたと思います。
Aside from Mari, the course of the story and drama up to Part C was roughly the same in the eleventh draft of the script, dated March 11, 2007, as it would be in the film. However, Part D still followed the course of the original series. Up to the eleventh draft, the plan for what would be done with Unit-02 during the battle with the tenth angel - for example - had continually changed. I went from a proposal from Tsurumaki which suggested that, "as it puts pressure on production, it would be better if Unit-02 did not appear [during that scene]", to "Mari will pilot Unit-02," and at one point I even settled on a plan where "an unconscious Asuka will pilot Unit-02 using the dummy system." The eleventh draft [?] was written along those lines. The development following the defeat of Unit-02 and Unit-00 just followed the course of the original series, where Rei, who is consumed by or united with the angel, tries to take in Unit-01, and, when she notices what she is doing, self-destructs. At this point, I tremporarily stopped working on the script. That was because work on "Prelude" was facing a great crisis, and I had to focus upon it. If I'm not mistaken, at one point I requested image boards and storyboards of the last battle based upon this draft from Shin-chan (Shinji Higuchi's pet name).

---中断していた『破』の脚本作業の再開は、いつごろですか?
--- When was the suspended work on the "Break" script resumed?

庵野 『序』の初号試写の後、しばし放心してからです。そこから改めてあちこち大小の問題点を洗い出し、十月末の脚本合宿やその間のいろいろな意見、自分の考えをまとめて、かなりの部分を書き直した新規版ともいえる脚本、第12稿が二〇〇七年の十二月六日に出てました。このときは、落下使徒戦でマリとアスカをプラグ内に同席させる展開になっていました。それと全編描き下ろし、オール新作の気持ちで書き直しているので、旧作の素材流用が前提のエピソードが大幅に削除されています。
Anno: I was in a daze for a little while following the first "Prelude" screening. From there I once again uncovered various issues, large and small. Gathering [the various opinions expressed at ?] the script retreat held at the end of October, as well as my own thoughts, I revised a large portion of the script, producing what you might call a new version. This twelfth draft was completed on December 6, 2007. At this point, there was a development where, during the fight with the falling angel, Mari and Asuka are present in the [Unit-02] entry plug together. Then I wrote the entire script anew, rewriting it with the feeling that it was an all-new work. Because of that, the parts of the script predicated upon the appropriation of materials [genga etc.] from the original series were largely eliminated.

あと、もうひとつの新たな、大きいな変更点がこの時点で出てきました。ラストでレイがシンジを救うために自爆してしまうのをやめて、シンジがレイを助けるという流れにしたことです。これは「二本目は三本目につながる話でもあるので、希望を持って、気持ち良く終わってほしい」という大月(俊倫)さんのプロデューサーとしての意見によるものでした。この件に関してもまたスタッフ間では賛否両論で、今度は特に鶴巻が変更に反対というか、抵抗していましたね。マッキーは「旧作では影の薄かった三人目のレイを三本目で深く描いて大きくフィーチャーしたい」というか、それが参加動機のひとつみたいなものでしたから。けど、まあ最終的には、レイを助ける話に僕が決めて、「庵野さんがいいなら」と納得してくれました。そっちに決めたのは『破』には「変化」というモノを僕が求めていたからと思います。それがまた、次の変化につながるんじゃないかと、ですね。アスカとレイ、ミサトの役割とかもこのころにはだいたい見えてきましたが、問題はマリでしたね。
In addition, one more new, significant change emerged at this time. Abandoning the scenario where Rei self-destructs in the last scene to save Shinji, I decided on a course where Shinji saves Rei. This was due to (Toshimichi) Otsuki's opinion as a producer that, because [the story of the second part would also lead to the third part ?], he wanted it to end hopefully, with a positive feeling. Regarding this, opinions among the staff were again divided. This time, it was Tsurumaki who particularily opposed, or resisted, this change. Makki said that he wanted to prominently feature Rei III, who was barely present in the old work, in the third part [of Rebuild], developing her in depth. It seemed like this had been one of his motivations for participating [in Rebuild]. However, in the end I decided on the scenario where Rei is saved, and he assented, saying "If it's all right with Anno-san....". I think I decided that way because, with "Break," I was searching for something called "change." As well, I thought this would lead to the next change. At this point I could generally see what the roles of Asuka, Rei, and Misato would be. The problem was Mari.
Last edited by 1731298478 on Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby evafanatic » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:02 am

Wow, that was an interesting read.

Thanks for translating this insightful interview.

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Postby Xard » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:11 am

Oh man. Tsurumaki really is hardcore Asuka fanboy, isn't he...

Who is this Ikki Todoroki anyway?

Btw, great to know Asuka really was doing what she did for Rei's etc. sake...
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And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
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Nice, Xard. That's nice.

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Postby Seele00TextOnly » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:32 am

Thanks for the interview translations. I'm not going to comment on the Asuka stuff. I don't have to. The comments seen here and the comments made by the people who have been consistently derided for even caring about the situation and writing of it in the first place all speak for themselves.

Actually, no. I'll just quote a little part and leave it at that. Because someone has to.
The change of test pilot was forced into the script, with the characters and situations left unaltered.
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Postby 1731298478 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:43 am

View Original PostXard wrote:Who is this Ikki Todoroki anyway?

I don't know much about him, but he's a CM director who is credited in the Rebuild films as Anno's assistant and also as being involved in publicity or advertising. In the interviews so far he's been mentioned as taking notes at Atami and modifying one of the 1.0 posters according to Anno's directions.

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Postby BornIn1142 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:43 am

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:Thanks for the interview translations. I'm not going to comment on the Asuka stuff. I don't have to.


Yes, you're right. I struggled with myself for a bit about whether I was going to be "that guy" and start complaining about this, but there really isn't a lot to say, is there?
"I'm afraid you can't create tragedy out of abnormal psychology." - Andrew Sarris.

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Postby 1731298478 » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:50 am

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:Actually, no. I'll just quote a little part and leave it at that. Because someone has to.

I should mention, just in case the translation is unclear, that Anno is referring to the 6th draft there and not the final script. I might edit "script" to "draft" there just to make it a bit clearer.

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Postby Xard » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:55 am

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:
Actually, no. I'll just quote a little part and leave it at that. Because someone has to.


...you do realize that's about early draft not the final film before all the other changes to Asuka's character etc. were introduced, right?
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
Mugwump: Goddamn it, Xard! Take me in your arms, you magnificent sex god bastard!
And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
Eva Yojimbo: You really are the Otaku equivalent of a Catholic and Jew rolled up into one giant dakimakura of guilt.
Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

Nice, Xard. That's nice.

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Postby Seele00TextOnly » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:57 am

Oh, I understood it was an earlier draft and he wasn't intending that as a final statement. But that doesn't change that effectively, to me, and many others I am sure, it still appears in the end that that is all that occured there. That is how I meant it and sorry for any lack of clarity on my part.
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Postby GasmaskAvenger » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:01 am

they should've just dropped all leftovers from the original franchise 100% (similar to why I feel 1.0 needed to be "different as hell"), because...I dunno


Rebuild should've just been very different, with little care in "holding onto the past" at all


not to say I dislike the films with extreme vitriol, i'm just saying that because I want to...for some reason
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:11 am

Awesome stuff, Number-kun~! ^___^ Thanks! Man, this is really making me excited for Q.
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Postby Kendrix » Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:53 pm

Thanks for your hard work, Number-kun! We're all looking forward to the next part.


View Original PostGasmaskAvenger wrote:they should've just dropped all leftovers from the original franchise 100% (similar to why I feel 1.0 needed to be "different as hell"), because...I dunno


Rebuild should've just been very different, with little care in "holding onto the past" at all


Now, I don't think that would be good - Many ppl want to change their lives, but it is rarely as easy as pushing a button. You have to work with what you had before, and it's HARD.
Rebuild as it is now aknowdledges that,it shows the characters managing to change just a little after the very same ordeals - much of the beauty of Rebuild comes from the small changes, the changes DESPITE the similarities.
in addition to that, it was never quite meant to be a completely new frachise, it's still called Evangelion.
if it makes you happy, according to "Makki", they mainly sqeezed so much plot into 2.X because they wanted to have their homework done, so they can do new stuff. You WILL get your completely new stuff - the trailer annouces nothing familiar but episode 24, and part I of this interview spoke of huge quantities of Mari.

BTW, it's intresting how the S/A relationship is not mentioned amongst the things included in the "clipshow"-variant, even if the absence of it's romantic component is a great deviation... were they planning on dropping it from the start?

And Lol, look! The eventual ending of 2.X WAS meant to be "hopeful/positive"! Yay! look, there it is, from the mouth of Anno himself!
And he seemed to be on the camp of those who thought keeping Rei II was a good idea. Poor Makki, no Rei III for him XD
On the plus side, Rei III never liked existing all too much, she probably wouldn't mind.

I wonder what other intresting Revelations these interviews will offer - as it looks, the next bit will deal with Mari, which is intresting, considering that Mari's eventual personality in the finished project, was, acording to Tsurumaki, the product of one of Anno's last revisions.
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