Evangelion 2.0 Complete Records Collection

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby Azathoth » Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:11 am

View Original Postgwern wrote:You're not the first person to make the connection that the rubber arms look like Asuka's plugsuit; although I think all the mentions of this I've seen before took it as some sort of EoE allusion (reverse strangulation).


You could make that argument as a "do ho ho, look at our in-jokes" allusion, but it's important to remember that to have a coherent plot small enough chance of that any allusions you throw in there should have a justification inside the story as well as a justification to the viewers. The cut scene makes the Asuka-arms seem a lot more logical, because we have confirmation that Asuka is actively involved and perhaps even semi-conscious (although probably not in recognizable physical form).
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Postby Synapsid » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:05 am

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:while the storyboard indicates that it's not Asuka's physical contact with Bardiel that triggers the explosion but rather the moment when she pulls her face back on.
I hadn’t really thought of that before, but it would fit right into what the sketches show as a mass of light as she pulls her face back on. It all makes it seem like Asuka consciously allowed Akira Bardiel into her. And the following scenes at Golgotha do make it seem like the two have become intertwined, so like mentioned, that really is Asukael strangling Shinji, and shrieking.

Which makes sense, sort of; if the pilot is the medium by which neural impulses are transmitted to the Evangelion to manipulate it, Bardiel would need to fuse with the pilot or else shatter the restraints that prevent an Eva from moving of its own accord...
I hadn’t really thought of that before, but it would fit right into what the sketches show as a mass of light as she pulls her face back on. It all makes it seem like Asuka consciously allowed Akira Bardiel into her. And the following scenes at Golgotha do make it seem like the two have become intertwined, so like mentioned, that really is Asukael strangling Shinji, and shrieking. (There seems to be something of a pattern with skin pealing, loss of self and distinctions with another. Even the motif of something mirroring them is there, in Asuka’s case it’s with something more alien than Ayanami)

View Original PostNAveryW wrote: But don't be surprised if, early in 3.0, the life support mask comes off Asuka's face and it doesn't have any skin.
Um, I don’t think so; it’s probably not much more likely than Shinji/Rei coming out as a white glowing being(s). In both cases the scenes were more metaphorical than literal, and from what is shown from context Asuka didn’t really have all that much in the way of physical injuries; you don’t use rods and needles(which would have tied nicely to her rape) to suppress an ATF in a hospital do you? Oh, and by embracing Bardiel Asuka got her face back, so it wouldn’t make sense if it were missing.

Then again, since the face did represent Bardiel, and Asuka pulled it on to her, I wouldn’t be surprised if Bardiel didn’t manifest physically. The Japanese part of the fandom thinks that the patch covers contamination/corruption, and the concept of Baridel embedding himself in there doesn’t seem to discredit that. I guess the function of the suppressors NERV used might have been to make Bardi dormant, but I doubt that would get rid of him, not if the groundwork the films have laid is any indication.
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Postby gwern » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:26 am

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:You could make that argument as a "do ho ho, look at our in-jokes" allusion, but it's important to remember that to have a coherent plot small enough chance of that any allusions you throw in there should have a justification inside the story as well as a justification to the viewers. The cut scene makes the Asuka-arms seem a lot more logical, because we have confirmation that Asuka is actively involved and perhaps even semi-conscious (although probably not in recognizable physical form).


This is a good point, but I think it applies only to 'larger' things than the details of the arms of Asukael (or whatever cute name we're using).

No character remarks on the arms' color, no character makes decisions - no character is affected in any way by the fine details, any more than they are affected by the specific SF quote being played backwards when the Dummy Plug system is activated. We read the latter as either accident or directorial commentary; no in-universe explanation is necessary, and we would be surprised if eg. the manga later mentioned that one tech in Golgotha Base was a fan of American B-movies and this is the explanation.

Now, if Shinji had seen the arms, connected them to Asuka's plugsuit and said something like 'I knew it! Everyone hates me, even Asuka unconsciously wants to kill me! Despair, despair, this world of misanthropy has driven me to despair!' and hung himself, then the explanation that it was 'just' an EoE ref would be utterly untenable. But clearly nothing like that ever happened.

I mean, we *know* Gainax likes to throw in all sorts of allusions to their other works without in-universe reason.

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Postby Electric Sachiel » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:17 pm

Man all this talk about Asuka's face being ripped off and possible implications it could have had on the movie and plot progression....its slowly taking over this topic.

LOL Whatever happened to the discussion centered around the Evangelion 2.0 Complete Records Collection book set? I just got mine in the mail today and will be giving some of my own thoughts and review later today. If not tommorow. I heard from my bro who opened it for me that it even comes with a free orange Eva shopping bag.

Anyone here getting it?

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Postby esselfortium » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:19 pm

View Original PostElectric Sachiel wrote:Man all this talk about Asuka's face being ripped off and possible implications it could have had on the movie and plot progression....its slowly taking over this topic.

LOL Whatever happened to the discussion centered around the Evangelion 2.0 Complete Records Collection book set?

I'm not sure what you're getting at, or how this is an issue. A bunch of us found something from the 2.0 Complete Records Collection to be particularly interesting and worthy of discussion, so we talked about it. There's nothing stopping anyone else from bringing up anything else they find interesting regarding the book's contents.

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Postby Electric Sachiel » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:55 pm

View Original Postesselfortium wrote:I'm not sure what you're getting at, or how this is an issue. A bunch of us found something from the 2.0 Complete Records Collection to be particularly interesting and worthy of discussion, so we talked about it. There's nothing stopping anyone else from bringing up anything else they find interesting regarding the book's contents.


It just seems like this discussion you guys are having is best suited to be done in a different thread. I never said it was completely unrelated to the Complete Records book set....but to drone on and on about how cool it would have been or not have been to have that one scene....that can be done in a seperate thread.

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Postby Reichu » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:05 pm

Evil book! I should have just put it away, but NOOOOO, I had to look at it at its delectable contents and blow most of my weekend on an Evangelion high!

So, yeah. The set is pretty awesome. So much to see. So much to scan. So much Moonspeak to attempt to decipher.

A couple of things I noticed that others have definitely noticed already (but I haven't been around, so ... nya!):

  • The thing on Tunniel confirmed to be [s]an entry plug[/s], durp, I mean, a SHAM. Of course I noticed those kanji there! They also say what the rest of the equipment is, but I'm not figuring that out now.
  • IPEA stands for International Project Evangelion Agency. (lol)
  • Eva-03 as a shaggy fungus monster is pretty hilarious.
  • Takeshi Honda was thinking of giving Zeruel some serious vagina dentata. That or making... her, I guess... part termite queen.*
  • Some Cambrian Explosion animals went into the "we have no idea what we're going for" concept art for 7th Angel. (One of them looks like Sandalphon's deformed twin.)
  • I feel pretty embarrassed to say so, but until I saw the Zeruel production art, I didn't realize that Rei!Zeruel has absolutely stunted lower legs. Another previously-unnoticed wink at the original design are the patches of dark skin on the torso, mimicking NGE!Zeruel.
  • Tabgha Base is enumerated the 7th Branch, but Bethany Branch gets no number.
  • Bethany Base is shown to be a structure shaped like a chicken egg with the smaller end pointing down. Only the very top is exposed (much ado was made of this, "It's a Geofront" and etc.).
  • Should I feel relieved that, after a decade of living (mostly alone) with my idiosyncratic depravity, it is revealed that someone from the original Eva team has contemplated the notion of nuclelingus? Or should I be frightened that the scenario is one involving a Rei torso emerging from Zeruel and coming onto an upside-down Eva-01 hard?
  • Looks like they were considering the "two pilots in one Eva" scenario at one point, only with Asuka and Mari this time. ...And many voices cried out at the missed fanservice opportunities.
  • Eva-05 had a normal body plan at one point. (Conceptually.)
  • The dots on god!Eva-01's midline are supposed to be chakras (I think). Which was probably kind of obvious anyway.
  • And much, much more!

Have fun with the book(s), everybody. Time for me to solemnly repack my copy and forget I own it until December.


*Were we wrong about Zeruel's intrinsic gender ALL THIS TIME? In #19, Shinji and Gendo have a "Man's Fight", so that makes Eva-01 versus Zeruel... D:
Last edited by Reichu on Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Postby NAveryW » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:09 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:The thing on Tunniel confirmed to be an entry plug.
According to the /m/ thread, the word before "Entry Plug" translates to "presumed" or "mock". I think. The thread's gone now, but it could definitely be translated as either "mock" or a word that doesn't confirm either way.

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Postby Lonecow12 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:40 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:[*] Looks like they were considering the "two pilots in one Eva" scenario at one point, only with Asuka and Mari this time. ...And many voices cried out at the missed fanservice opportunities.



Hot!

Also, this confirms that I expected Asuka and Mari to be a couple in Rebuild.

If Asuka can't be happy with Shinji, maybe Mari can lick her wounds in Q.

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Postby Electric Sachiel » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:46 pm

View Original PostLonecow12 wrote:Hot!

Also, this confirms that I expected Asuka and Mari to be a couple in Rebuild.

If Asuka can't be happy with Shinji, maybe Mari can lick her wounds in Q.



Hells yeah!! I mean as if I didnt get turned on enough by Shinji and Asuka in one cockpit. LOL....cockpit.... Mari and Asuka together piloting an Eva.....hmmm.....Squished boobs anyone? :toothy:

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Postby Lucretius » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:18 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:[*] Looks like they were considering the "two pilots in one Eva" scenario at one point, only with Asuka and Mari this time.


Wow, they really didn't know where they were going with this movie, did they?

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:44 pm

I wonder where about in the planning stages ("Mari and Asuka in one Eva", Asuka's face melting, Giant Rei/Eva-01 stuff was a joke apparently) all these scrapped ideas come from. I'm guessing the initial one but...

I admit, it would have been great to see Asuka and Mari interact in the same Eva, together considering how gung-ho they both are. Hopefully they'll get some interaction together, piloting or not.

Were there any major (complete change in the plot) ideas scrapped? Or does the book say anything about whether or not Asuka was going to be the Eva-03 victim from early on?
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Postby Reichu » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:54 pm

Aside from its total wackiness, is there any evidence that the Evaphile Rei storyboard is a joke? The lack of cut numbers doesn't mean anything, other than that they were storyboarding ideas before they had the slightest idea of what the general cut layout would be.

Burden of proof is on NAW.

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Postby shinji_ryoji_89 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:14 pm

View Original PostLucretius wrote:Wow, they really didn't know where they were going with this movie, did they?


It's called a draft.

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Postby NAveryW » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:29 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Aside from its total wackiness, is there any evidence that the Evaphile Rei storyboard is a joke? The lack of cut numbers doesn't mean anything, other than that they were storyboarding ideas before they had the slightest idea of what the general cut layout would be.

Burden of proof is on NAW.
I said it was a guess. But as crazy as Evangelion gets, and it gets incredibly guano crazy, I can't imagine anyone involved seriously considering Rei bursting out of the Tenth Angel and fellating Unit 01's core before moving in for an open-mouth kiss as the humans below watch in astonishment while "Tsubasa wo Kudasai" presumably swells up in the background. Talk about out-of-character. I mean, the fact that anyone thought of it at all is awesome, but I can't take it seriously at all. If it made it into the film somehow, it would be a clear sign to everyone that those responsible for the film no longer have any idea what they're doing.

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Postby Reichu » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:38 pm

Throwing shit around "behind the scenes" to see what will stick is part and parcel of fiction-building. It has no direct correlation with whether or not something will suck (which is what Luc seems to be implying, but I could be wrong).

And @NAW, perhaps the interview sheds some light on Higuchi's intentions. Better to check than just guess.

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Postby NAveryW » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:47 pm

Yes, someone with access to the interview should definitely check.

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Postby Reichu » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:53 pm

Annnnnd... that's my cue to leave! :tongue:

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:15 pm

Two pilots in one Eva huh?

Yeah, that sounds like an early idea that's being held onto for use in 3.0. Probably with Rei & Shinji cause that's the direction the story is leaning towards.

And trust me, for any large scale productions with healthy sized budgets, the amount of ideas thrown about in early production stages can be staggering! This is especially true in anything that starts out from a pre-existing property.

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Postby Synapsid » Mon Sep 13, 2010 11:06 pm

View Original Postgwern wrote:This is a good point, but I think it applies only to 'larger' things than the details of the arms of Asukael (or whatever cute name we're using).

No character remarks on the arms' color, no character makes decisions - no character is affected in any way by the fine details...

Why would they? It’s pretty common for points that will be important later on to be rather subtle and kept as context in the background rather than be handled explicitly(for instance nobody in the original EVA commented on how very similar Rei and Shinji look, even though there were overlapping shots that intentionally showed their similarities). People would kind of loose focus if you started throwing everything right at them; in this case if you made the Asuka contamination/rape plot explicit people would look at that rather than the rest of the film. Given that the Ikari plot is done for the moment, and the preview mentions that they won’t be recovered any time soon it probably wouldn’t be wrong to guess that Asukael will have much of the focus in Q. It would build right on top of all the contextual stuff from 2.0, and like others have suggested Anno might have saved her rape scene for Q to better keep his focus.

Now, about Asukael’s arms, if we look at it along with the other material it seems to go alongside with the Akira sequence in serving as a rejection of her preangelfied comment about being able to live happily with others(she referred to Shinji, so it’s fitting that she strangles him).
View Original PostLonecow12 wrote:Also, this confirms that I expected Asuka and Mari to be a couple in Rebuild.

If Asuka can't be happy with Shinji, maybe Mari can lick her wounds in Q.
You know, if Asuka has some sort of horible fungal infection it would probably wouldn't be a good idea to share anything (also the two pilots in an EVA kind of sounds like Gunbuster).
View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Two pilots in one Eva huh?

Yeah, that sounds like an early idea that's being held onto for use in 3.0. Probably with Rei & Shinji cause that's the direction the story is leaning towards...
They've allready done that, just in a slightly different way: Rei and Shinji are in Yui as of now, although that might be more acurately described as two pilots in one womb(which sharing any EVA would be, but it's more relevant here). Incedentaly that scene does seem to parralel Bardiel/Asuka not just in the skin aspect, but also in the dualism/mirror theme(Yui even has twin cores now).
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