Eva 2.22 (and 3.33?) BD/DVD Audio issues?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Gendo'sPapa
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu May 27, 2010 4:37 pm

Haven't had a chance to view the BD from beginning to end but wouldn't put it past Gainax/Khara.

Hey, they need something to market for next years Evangelion 2.25 edition.

And when these films are done they'll need something for the releases of Evangelion 1.5 and Evangelion 2.5

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Postby tedness » Fri May 28, 2010 1:13 am

hmm I downloaded several versions: one 700~mb version w/ subtitles and one higher quality version without subs, and the lower quality (yet still acceptable on my hdtv) version seemed to have a better audio mix to it.

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Postby Ornette » Fri May 28, 2010 1:27 am

View Original PostEdZ wrote:Could those with an actual BD confirm this? Preferably with an actual surround system to avoid codec issues, and switching between audio tracks to make sure it isn't just a channel issue with one of them. IIRC, the BD should have both a 6.1 and a 2.0 track, though I don't know what encoding scheme is used for each (LPCM, DD, DTS, DD+, DTS-HD, etc).

When I watched my BD that had the 6 channel sound mixed to 2ch (in mplayer, it's -af pan=2:.32:.32:.39:.06:.06:.39:.17:-.17:-.17:.17:.33:.33) because I only have 2 speakers. I didn't notice any dramatic drops in background music or anything. Maybe the volumed was turned down, but I didn't notice it. Seemed fine for me.

I just replayed the Saha battle on my BD and the music sounded fine. Can anyone give me some timestamps of where the music drops out or gets drastically turned down? I'll check it on my BD.

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Postby Reichu » Fri May 28, 2010 3:38 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:And when these films are done they'll need something for the releases of Evangelion 1.5 and Evangelion 2.5

Can't have a "5" in the version number, just 1s and 0s for the first movie and 2s and 0s for the second movie. Maybe Anno deliberately chose this gimmick in order to prevent himself from updating the films too many times, because this system makes new version numbers cumbersome rather quickly (hence exponentially unmarketable). :hahaha:

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Postby EdZ » Fri May 28, 2010 6:21 am

Checking with the BD, there is no odd audio drop-outs. However, the audio has been re-edited in some segments. For example, the last few bars before the end of Ambassadrice Rouge (EVA-02 / Clockiel sequence) have been cut to allow the track to end earlier. Likewise, the music starts off at a much lower volume in the 'angel catching' sequence before gradually becoming louder. Overall, almost every piece of backing music is quieter than the theatrical version, and the music volume is usually reduced during shots with vocals. If you have the right equipment or filters, you can make this really obvious by killing the centre channel and listening to only front L/R*.

These are not channel mixing or mastering issues like the contrast problem with 1.0, but deliberate editing decisions. They're not decisions I particularly agree with, but it's not a case of 'let's rush out a flawed master to hit the release deadline and fix it for the re-release'.


*Which raises the possibility that the audio could be 'fixed' by selectively raising the volume of the fL/R channels manually for the shots where it is lowered, without totally mucking up the vocals and foley on the centre channel. Would still require a lot of work, and probably sound rather wonkey when the foley is mixed into the other channel's though. A pity nobody managed to sneak into the projector room during the theatrical run and grab a telesync copy of the theatrical audio to work with. At least then we'd just have to splice in the audio for the few new scenes.

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Postby Soul Fire » Fri May 28, 2010 7:04 am

Um I know someone at my university that will help me edit the film using final cut so that the OST songs from rebuild ( the ones already timed for the film), will be overlayed on top of the relavant scenes from the film. This will take a while as we might to need to get an updated version of final cut and there are issues with how this will work with the longer scenes. I think I will only have time to work on one rip ( Blu Ray/ DVD) but I might be able to do both. I'm quite busy with uni though so dont exspect anything within the next week but I will give it a go unless anyone else thinks they can do it faster.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri May 28, 2010 10:30 am

Got around to watching the BD.

Don't know what you people are talking about. The audio effects and score are excellently done.

What they did do though is change things around from the theatrical release. For example I believe the "heroic" music that plays while Asuka defeats the 7th Angel lasts up until Misato's car does that over the top flipping thing, but it's been reedited so it ends when Asuka destroys the Angel's core.

If there are any actual music flaws I'd love to hear people point them out. Not just things like "this is different from the camrip I watched 8 billion times. Thus I don't like it"

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Postby Jinroh » Fri May 28, 2010 10:56 am

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:"this is different from the camrip I watched 8 billion times. Thus I don't like it"

I think that's the main problem here. There aren't any serious issues with the music in itself. Just a different timing/small changes.

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Postby JoeD80 » Fri May 28, 2010 11:21 am

View Original PostEdZ wrote:IIRC, the BD should have both a 6.1 and a 2.0 track, though I don't know what encoding scheme is used for each (LPCM, DD, DTS, DD+, DTS-HD, etc).

There are two 6.1 tracks on the Blu-Ray. Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD.

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Postby svenge » Fri May 28, 2010 3:55 pm

I think he's referring to the HK release.

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Postby EdZ » Fri May 28, 2010 5:26 pm

Nope, just didn't have the BD to check then. There are the aforementioned TrueHD and DTS-HD MA 6.1 tracks, and a 2.0 DD track. All have the same edits to the backing music.

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Postby squall.leonhart » Sat May 29, 2010 12:42 am

There are no dramatic drop-off's in either of my lossless tracks. I just listened to "Destiny" and "Fate" about 6 times and I think I found the solution.

Did anyone think about disabling DRC (Dynamic Range Compression) for the Dolby tracks?!

I first watched the scenes with DRC disabled and noticed no real difference between the tracks. As soon as I enabled DRC, the drop-off's for Dolby TrueHD and Dolby Digital were so audible that I found myself adjusting the volume on my speakers. The DTS-MA track has no DRC.

DRC is enabled by default on ALL DVD and Blu-ray players. Most will let you adjust the range of compression or even turn it off completely. Refer to your player's documentation for this.


Oh, and Soul Fire, I don't mean to offend you or your friend when I say that Final Cut Pro does not equal an audio mixer. It is a video editor at best. I'm not going to wait to have some people with little/no experience in audio engineering to re-mix a soundtrack that really has no problems in the first place. If you said your friend had ProTools, I may have taken him seriously. Don't sweat with editing it. Concentrate on school :thumbsup: .

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Postby EdZ » Sat May 29, 2010 7:20 am

View Original Postsquall.leonhart wrote:Did anyone think about disabling DRC (Dynamic Range Compression) for the Dolby tracks?!
I did my testing with DRC disabled, the fL/fR channels still reduce in volume when there are vocals on the centre channel. It's definitely not an automated response: the decrease occurs half a second or so before speech begins.

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Postby Soul Fire » Sat May 29, 2010 8:32 am

Oh, and Soul Fire, I don't mean to offend you or your friend when I say that Final Cut Pro does not equal an audio mixer. It is a video editor at best. I'm not going to wait to have some people with little/no experience in audio engineering to re-mix a soundtrack that really has no problems in the first place. If you said your friend had ProTools, I may have taken him seriously. Don't sweat with editing it. Concentrate on school


We do actually have better software to do it at uni but I dont have access and my friend has just graduated and cant access it either.

I've spoke to someone else that has a superior piece of software ( but at home ) and will try and get him to sort it for me in his spare time. I just dont like what they have done to the soundtrack at all. It's mainly the saha battle that has been ruined by what ever muppet decided to lower the overall volume of the music and increase everything else .
Yes I know Im posting a lot at the moment but I really dont have anything better to do at the moment and it takes my mind off the phone bill....

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Postby Rodeo » Sat May 29, 2010 9:05 am

I have no idea about some of this technical stuff you're talking about, but I did notice that the music was quite awkwardly timed some scenes.
Eva-02's introductory sequence bothered me in particular and going back to the camrip the very same scene goes perfectly with the music. This makes no sense because there are no extended cuts or anything going on, they had no reason whatsoever to screw up the timing like this.

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Postby Heromaster111 » Sat May 29, 2010 11:58 am

I personally like the 2.22 redone Asuka intro over the theatrical.....
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Postby Jinroh » Sat May 29, 2010 12:05 pm

View Original PostRodeo wrote:This makes no sense

As I said, it makes sense. The music fades once the angel dies and the action stops.

I find it absolutely normal. The theatrical version is just weird, keeping the music loud even though the action is over.

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Postby Rodeo » Sat May 29, 2010 12:42 pm

But the action doesn't stop there. First explodes and causes this huge lightplay in the sky then Asuka performs multiple somersaults before landing and sending Misato's car spinning. When her car stops, that's when the action is over. The track Ambassadrice Rouge does not refer to the Angel, it refers to Asuka and how she is a gigantic showoff.
Thematics aside, the song just doesn't sync up very well in 2.22, it's awkward how the finale kinda comes out of nowhere before Asuka has actually penetrated the AT field. They should have either left the scene as it was, or gotten Sagisu to redo the track.

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Postby Soul Fire » Sat May 29, 2010 1:42 pm

Right I'm beggining to think I'm imagining this. The issues I have are the music volume of ''FATE'' being too low during the saha fight and the innitial beggining of said song which as far as I can hear, starts off at a certain volume for the first second of the song and then suddenly becomes so low that you can hardly hear the rest of the song. Your looking at 35:05 for the dvd and 35: 12 on the Blu ray. Having had another watch as well of the blu ray the problem doesnt seem to be as bad. Maybe I'm just going deaf or I should lay off the acid :).

(Edit) I've rewatched both. The music does drop off starting at a really high volume for the first second of the song ''Fate'' and then drops to a lower volume very suddenly. You cant miss this, it just sounds really jerky as if there is supposed to be more and it breaks up the scene's momentum slightly. But on the blu ray the overall volume of the song seems to be Ok. I think it is either the dvd/or a faulty rip but the error in volume transition is there on both rips.

Ive tried both on 3 different sets of speakers aswell.

Other than this I dont really see any other problems. I didnt like the way they cut the song for Asuka's battle. I think it was better the way it was before but it's not the end of the world.
Yes I know Im posting a lot at the moment but I really dont have anything better to do at the moment and it takes my mind off the phone bill....

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Postby Jinroh » Sat May 29, 2010 4:15 pm

View Original PostRodeo wrote: it's awkward how the finale kinda comes out of nowhere before Asuka has actually penetrated the AT field.

I understand what you mean, the synchronization is exactly the same but the "IIIIIINNNN" finals comes right before the penetrates the AT-field, it indeed souns a bit amateurish, some kind of bad copy paste.

But I've just checked again the camrip, and it really feels weird to me to have that music that goes on after the fixed plan on nigoki once she kills the angel.

Well I don't really know what to say. I guess it would have been good to have the two versions.


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