Is this really Lilith...?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Is this really Lilith...?

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Postby IkariRei » Fri May 28, 2010 3:00 pm

Could it be Adam now that there's a Key of Nebuchadnezzer replacing him in the VIP suitcase.
Image
The mask of the current Lilith looks too much like the Angels' which are born from Adam and Mark06 looks exactly like the previous Lilith.
Image
And Kaworu's riding it :sachi_blink:
Image
I wonder what they mean with "this time they're trying to create a real God instead of a fake".

Also source of this pic? There's scenes here i haven't seen yet. [Please reply in this thread. -staff]
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll75/kiratsuki/rebuild_of_evangelion_2_0_pics.jpg

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Postby Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion » Fri May 28, 2010 3:16 pm

So they changed Unit 06's skin from white to black, I wonder why. Another question is why would it need a mask? Only reason I can fathom right now is to prevent berserking. 06's couldn't have been "found" because that mask looks like it was sown on. Guess we'll have to wait until 3.0.
Also source of this pic? There's scenes here i haven't seen yet.

That's from a commercial of a slot machine. Relish it because it will be the only time we'll see a Rebuild version of Unit 04 for a really long time.
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Postby Natsuka_Chie » Fri May 28, 2010 3:24 pm

I don't think they changed it, it was inside a white suit on 1.0 right? I heard it somewhere
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Re: [Spoilers] Is this really Lilith..

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Postby The Eva Monkey » Fri May 28, 2010 4:20 pm

View Original PostIkariRei wrote:Could it be Adam now that there's a Key of Nebuchadnezzer replacing him in the VIP suitcase.

Please be sure to tag your topics with "Spoilers" where appropriate in the future.
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Postby konfunoodle » Fri May 28, 2010 4:38 pm

Im agree with your questioning. In the TVseries we were to believe at first that Lilith was Adam. Who knows maybe they plan on tricking us again. But, that fatass looks like lillith's
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Postby JoeD80 » Fri May 28, 2010 6:28 pm

Since Misato calls the one in Dogma Lilith when she takes Shinji to her, I'd say they are still sticking to that idea. Nobody called the one on the Moon anything except Mark 06. Also Kaworu syncs with Adam clones, not Lilith clones so he wouldn't work with Mark 06 if it was Lilith, unless they really change things around.

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Postby The Goose » Fri May 28, 2010 10:47 pm

I'm going to say that the creature in Central Dogma is Lilith since it has breasts. It can't be anything but Lilith.

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Postby ZapX » Fri May 28, 2010 10:58 pm

Well, if you think Lilith is the only thing in Eva with tits you clearly aren't paying attention.
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Postby The Goose » Sat May 29, 2010 12:13 am

View Original PostZapX wrote:Well, if you think Lilith is the only thing in Eva with tits you clearly aren't paying attention.


True, but I'm not talking of the human female variety. :blush:

I'm talking of the white giant variety.

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Postby Reichu » Sat May 29, 2010 12:30 am

Take further conversation on the pachinko stuff here, please. (Try not to have "asides" like that when you create threads in the future, IkariRei -- one defined topic per thread, otherwise it gets messy!)

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=5952

View Original PostIkariRei wrote:I wonder what they mean with "this time they're trying to create a real God instead of a fake".

Perhaps they're "converting" one of the Adams from 2I and leaving it with full potency, instead of "distilling" its power, or generating a "counterfeit" via reverse engineering (i.e. bioengineering). (I'm referring back to my post here.)

View Original PostThe Goose wrote:True, but I'm not talking of the human female variety. :blush:

I'm talking of the white giant variety.

What Lilith has are more puffy pectorals than boobs. There are some (not even fat) guys who have chests shaped kinda like Lilith's there. Breasts hang off the pectorals in a pretty particular way...

View Original PostNatsuka_Chie wrote:I don't think they changed it, it was inside a white suit on 1.0 right? I heard it somewhere

Sadamoto's layout drawing says that the body is wrapped in a "rubber cover". Though, now that I look again --

http://wiki.evageeks.org/images/2/20/Eva1-0_C1680_genga.jpg

On the genga, the cover could be interpreted as ending on either side of the neck, similar to the ribbed black material that replaces it in 2.X (which may be what all Evas wear beneath the armor plates). Well... either there really is white/black material covering the entire head in both instances, or Eva-06's skin has changed color for some reason.

The only problem I have with the head being covered is that the "stitches" holding the mask in place would seemingly pose a problem, but maybe I'm just not thinking outside the box enough...

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Postby NemZ » Sat May 29, 2010 3:12 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Breasts hang off the pectorals in a pretty particular way...


...unless that weird scar is from where they implanted an internal push-up?
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Postby Azathoth » Sat May 29, 2010 11:53 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:...unless that weird scar is from where they implanted an internal push-up?


That's a fun mental image.

It may be a little off-topic, but surely somebody has already mentioned that Lilith (if that's who it is in Dogma) has NGE Misato's scar? Does NME Misato have the same scar?
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Postby SaltyJoe » Sat May 29, 2010 12:18 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:Does NME Misato have the same scar?

Yup.

[URL=http://img684.imageshack.us/i/scarv.jpg/]Image[/URL]
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Postby Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion » Sat May 29, 2010 12:47 pm

So I think we can safely speculate that Misato has Lilith's soul this time around?
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Re: [Spoilers] Is this really Lilith..

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Postby evaunit13 » Sat May 29, 2010 2:24 pm

View Original PostIkariRei wrote:I wonder what they mean with "this time they're trying to create a real God instead of a fake".

*i got the following from wikipedia, so it's probably wrong

quote from wikipedia entry for umbilical cable:
However, EVA 06 in the Rebuild of Evangelion movies is operated without the need for external power and has no umbilical connections on its back. The nature of how this is possible remains unexplained. In the same scene though, EVA 06 is seen with a halo above its head. Slightly earlier, EVA 01 also had a halo, which promptly transformed into a black hole. Ritsuko described this as EVA 01's transformation into an "energy condenser". Therefore, the halo could be EVA 06's power source.

from entry for s^2 engine:
Seele tried to keep the S² engine from being used in the original Evas, but these attempts failed when Unit 01 acquired one from the consumption of the body of Zeruel, the fourteenth Angel (in episode 19, "Introjection"). This resulted in Unit 01 being considered a "God" by Seele, something that the committee considered undesirable.

because the s^2 engine made 01 a "god," and 06's halo is similar to the engine, maybe it's classified as a "god" now? i'm pretty sure that earning the "god" classification isn't limited to just having an unlimited battery, so there's probably another reason why they're making a "god" now.
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Postby slothen » Sat May 29, 2010 6:36 pm

View Original PostTwin Drive Sigma Aquarion wrote:So I think we can safely speculate that Misato has Lilith's soul this time around?


I'm having horrible flashbacks to the "garden of eva" lemon where they sew up Misato's uterus after implanting adam stuff in it right before second impact, and then said she was Rei's mother.
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Postby EdZ » Sun May 30, 2010 7:18 am

View Original PostTwin Drive Sigma Aquarion wrote:So I think we can safely speculate that Misato has Lilith's soul this time around?
The scars are different sizes, different shapes, different orientations, and different locations. They're both on the torso, I guess.

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Postby Jornophelanthas » Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:01 am

View Original Postkonfunoodle wrote:Im agree with your questioning. In the TVseries we were to believe at first that Lilith was Adam. Who knows maybe they plan on tricking us again. But, that fatass looks like lillith's


I am sorry for digging up a 6-month-old discussion, but I would like to contribute an observation concerning the above quote, which would support the theory that "Lilith" in Central Dogma is actually (an?) Adam.

In order to present my argument, I must first introduce my personal theory behind it, which I'll call the "mirror image" theory.

I have a pet theory about the way Rebuild compares to the original NGE series. In my opinion, Rebuild appears like a mirror image to the NGE series in certain aspects, which means two things:

- First, Rebuild is recognizably the same as NGE, up to minute details.
- Secondly, certain events in Rebuild are the exact opposite of events in NGE.

What makes it a mirror image, is that these two things happen simultaneously, such as in a single shot, quote or dialogue. Throughout Rebuild, scenes and plot elements are run parallel to NGE, but different in their outcomes, at first subtly (1.0), until they differ very flagrantly (2.0). Still, the parallel to the original series does not weaken.

---

So let's apply this to the giant-in-the-basement.

Both in NGE and in Rebuild, our introduction to the white-giant-in-the-basement has Misato present. (In NGE, Kaji shows it to Misato, while in Rebuild Misato shows it to Shinji.)

In NGE, Misato was told it was Adam, and this proved to be wrong when Kaworu descended down the shaft and identified the giant as Lilith. Misato had been misinformed.

Now, the preview for Rebuild Q/3.0 shows Kaworu (inside Unit-06) descending into this same shaft, presumably towards the chamber holding the giant. Because we may expect some parallel with the NGE series, I would predict Kaworu will once again (correctly) identify the white giant.

There are three options here:

1. Kaworu identfies the giant as Lilith, which will not puzzle him because it's what he expected. Misato had been right.

2. Kaworu identifies the giant as Adam, which will puzzle him because he expected to see Lilith. Misato had been misinformed.

3. Kaworu will misidentify the giant (either agreeing with Misato that it is Lilith, or countering Misato and claiming that it is Adam).

I consider scenario 3 a candidate for immediate disqualification, because for Kaworu to be wrong about something this fundamental undermines his role as a prophet who imparts cryptic knowledge. Kaworu cannot be wrong about the state of the universe, or he wouldn't recognizably be Kaworu.

I find scenario 1 to be an anticlimax, because the whole drama of Kaworu descending to Central Dogma, only to encounter exactly what both the audience and Kaworu expect to find there, is too straightforward for Evangelion. Still, this is just meta-talk, and it is a possibility when viewed on its own.

This leaves scenario 2 still undiscussed. I have described this as a scene that is very much the same as a scene in Episode 24 of NGE, while the events that happen are simultaneously the exact opposite of what was portrayed in Episode 24.

In light of my pet "mirror theory", I find scenario 2 far more fitting to the spirit of the Rebuild movies than scenario 1.

While this remains all speculation, I hope it will at least spark some discussion.
Last edited by Jornophelanthas on Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby AuraTwilight » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:38 pm

This all implies that Kaworu even gives a shit about whatever's down there. He essentially has a near-perfect Adam Clone already(?) and his motives are clearly different this time around. Therefore Lilith's identity might not have any necessary dramatic relevance, and they just told us straight up to get that setting element out of the way.
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Postby Jornophelanthas » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:50 pm

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:This all implies that Kaworu even gives a shit about whatever's down there. He essentially has a near-perfect Adam Clone already(?) and his motives are clearly different this time around. Therefore Lilith's identity might not have any necessary dramatic relevance, and they just told us straight up to get that setting element out of the way.


The preview to 3.0/Q after the end titles of 2.0 explicitly announces that Kaworu will descend down to Central Dogma in Unit-06, and we see Unit-06 slowly floating down the shaft. Based on this evidence, I conclude that it is a FACT that the descent will take place.

Are you saying that this scene is not relevant to the plot, and that the trailer is just "Hideaki Anno trolling his audience again"? I find that highly unlikely for at least two reasons.

First, Kaworu has such a powerful presence in the Evangelion universe, that it would just about negate his character concept to have him perform any (and I mean ANY) uninteresting, straightforward and/or anticlimactic actions. Although I do expect 3.0/Q to give him more screentime than he had in NGE and EoE combined, (which may likely present him as a more human character than in NGE), Kaworu is still the prophet who is aware of all the metaphysics in the Rebuild universe, and will not act on a whim. Therefore, whatever is down there (and we know it's a white giant) must be important to him.
Besides, if the white giant (Misato: "It's Lilith.") was unimportant, why not leave it out entirely? Rebuild is partly meant as a more accessible version of Neon Genesis Evangelion, and a sure sign of bad writing is to complicate a story with elements that have no importance to it. Rebuild of Evangelion is not badly written (no, not even where it concerns Asuka Shikinami).

Secondly, whenever a pilot gets into an EVA Unit, the audience may expect a battle. On that note, the scene from the trailer is clearly meant to evoke a parallel with the climax of Episode 24, where Kaworu also descends down the shaft (only with Unit-02, which he pilots from the outside). Although the brief shot does not depict Shinji, Eva-01, Rei or anyone else for that matter, I do expect some sort of confrontation and likely a battle. Whatever it is, it must be at least as climactic as the original Tabris fight.

And my "mirror theory" hopefully provides an educated guess as to part of such a confrontation. If you disagree, please pick apart my theory or present an alternative.


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