Eva 02's Look in Rebirth

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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:37 pm

My view on it is that it's like changing an actor in a live action series. Why did Nigouki change? Explain to me how the plot explains that she now looks different. Then I'll accept that it was justified. Otherwise, it's just some idiod screwing around for no reason. She was fine before. Not perfect, but fine.

Originally posted on: 20-Jan-2005, 14:58 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:37 pm

Keel: "You idiots! This is not EVA-02! You've killed her stunt double!!"

For a really fun continuity gaff, notice how they used the EVA-02 launch sequence from the TV series in #25'. Apparently, the swap was made sometime between then and the scene at the bottom of the lake. Image

Originally posted on: 20-Jan-2005, 16:53 GMT

Magami No ER [ANF]
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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:37 pm

Forgot to post this, what was different about Konzo? Image

Originally posted on: 20-Jan-2005, 17:15 GMT

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Postby bjamieson [ANF] » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:37 pm

Soluzar wrote:My view on it is that it's like changing an actor in a live action series. Why did Nigouki change? Explain to me how the plot explains that she now looks different. Then I'll accept that it was justified. Otherwise, it's just some idiod screwing around for no reason. She was fine before. Not perfect, but fine.


See - I always considered it as "improving it" for a big budget, 35mm, projected on a hundred foot screen, change. Not swapping actors.

And I feel the plot explanation is moot. It's animation. Shinji's goes through many different looks throughout 26 episodes. It's the nature of the beast.

Originally posted on: 20-Jan-2005, 17:47 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:38 pm

bjamieson wrote:See - I always considered it as "improving it" for a big budget, 35mm, projected on a hundred foot screen, change. Not swapping actors.


"Big budget", and they still have that handful of cuts where the Evas are drawn poorly, and continuity errors up the wazoo.

I still think a more graceful transition from the old design to a more "individualized" one would have been HIGHLY preferable. The squashed-head, man-in-suit look just turns me off, and she has been robbed of any gracility whatsoever. Keep the original head, deepen the chest, broaden the shoulders somewhat, and lengthen the thighs, and Rachel would have been a much happier girl. (Oh yeah, and keep that one EVIL animator away from the Evas. Erk.)

As for ol' Kozo... He looks a little funny in #25'.

Image

But he seems to have regained his original look somewhat for #26':

Image

A couple of shots from the TV series, for comparison:

Image
Image

Originally posted on: 20-Jan-2005, 18:21 GMT

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Postby bjamieson [ANF] » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:38 pm

Reichu wrote:"Big budget", and they still have that handful of cuts where the Evas are drawn poorly, and continuity errors up the wazoo.


Opinions are funny. What cuts did you consider the Eva's drawn poorly in?

I truly believe, and I'm not saying this as an Eva fan but a film/animation fan in general, that the style of The End of Evangelion is one of the best styles I've seen, especially in contrast to the TV series (which was also top notch, don't get me wrong.)

But I just *love* the exaggerated perspectives in EoE, and I have a feeling that the cuts you're going to complain about are the ones I admire ^_^;

I still think a more graceful transition from the old design to a more "individualized" one would have been HIGHLY preferable. The squashed-head, man-in-suit look just turns me off, and she has been robbed of any gracility whatsoever.


Sorry - gotta disagree. And I never thought of them as "man-in-suit" looking, but now that you mention it, that would be very in-tune with Anno's (and Gainax's, and probably Tsurumaki's) roots (= Ultraman).

Keep the original head, deepen the chest, broaden the shoulders somewhat, and lengthen the thighs, and Rachel would have been a much happier girl. (Oh yeah, and keep that one EVIL animator away from the Evas. Erk.)


You wouldn't happen to be a yaoi fan, would you? Because that design scheme sounds a lot like this

:P

Originally posted on: 21-Jan-2005, 08:48 GMT

Treize X [ANF]
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Postby Treize X [ANF] » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:38 pm

BJ, refer to the first page, you'll see a bunh of images that we all think were drawn funny.

...Anyway. Moving on....


Originally posted on: 20-Jan-2005, 22:39 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:38 pm

bjamieson wrote:Opinions are funny. What cuts did you consider the Eva's drawn poorly in?


You apparently didn't read the entire thread...

But I just *love* the exaggerated perspectives in EoE, and I have a feeling that the cuts you're going to complain about are the ones I admire Image;


It's not exaggerated perspectives I'm complaining about.

Sorry - gotta disagree. And I never thought of them as "man-in-suit" looking


An example is given earlier in the thread.

You wouldn't happen to be a yaoi fan, would you? Because that design scheme sounds a lot like this


Image That design scheme would merely be integrating some of EVA-02's original features that were done away with, with devastating results. What on Earth has yaoi got to do with anything?

(And for the record, I prefer yuri. Image )

Originally posted on: 20-Jan-2005, 23:13 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:38 pm

:snickers: Eva games.....Image
I think alone, the Eva 02 in the movie is awesome, but has some bad cuts. But IMO, she looks horrible(face-wise and pylon-wise) compared to herself the series. When I first saw the movie, I thought that some of her armor parts were damaged, and were etheir removed or altered. Basicly, I n00bishly thought that the look was a part of the series, when it was just an artistic choice(pretty sure...?). Strange thoughts, lol. But, a fight between the the two versions would be awesome.^^
BTW, I swear to God Fuyutsuki(sp?) looks exactly like an anime version of my grandfather, especially in 25'. Image

Originally posted on: 21-Jan-2005, 00:32 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:38 pm

Magami No ER wrote:But, a fight between the the two versions would be awesome.^^


Another classic fan-art idea to add to the list! It could actually be a three-on-three: TV Kyoko, Gekijouban Kyoko, and Evil Gekijouban Kyoko.

BTW, I swear to God Fuyutsuki(sp?) looks exactly like an anime version of my grandfather, especially in 25'. Image


Maybe they should hire your gramps the play Kozo in LAEM. Image

Originally posted on: 21-Jan-2005, 01:05 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:38 pm

That'd be funny, though I think his head might be too big. Image

Originally posted on: 21-Jan-2005, 01:26 GMT

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Postby bjamieson [ANF] » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:38 pm

Reichu wrote:You apparently didn't read the entire thread...


*sigh*

You might as well have just said "Every time Eva-02 is on screen"

And for the record, I read the thread - but I didn't sit down and memorize who said what and posted which pictures. I was asking for your specific opinion and not considering if you'd posted pics.

An example is given earlier in the thread.


So.. what? I didn't ask for example (I don't care). All I said was that I never considered it looking like that, and it makes sense considering Anno loved Ultraman and used to make 8mm Ultraman shorts.

What on Earth has yaoi got to do with anything?


"Keep the original head, deepen the chest, broaden the shoulders somewhat, and lengthen the thighs"

Sounds to me like you want to keep it excessively thin, with a deeper chest, broader shoulders, and longer thighs - which sounds exactly like a yaoi character design. Hence the reason I said "Because that design scheme sounds a lot like (yaoi)"

Originally posted on: 21-Jan-2005, 05:34 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:39 pm

bjamieson wrote:You might as well have just said "Every time Eva-02 is on screen"

And for the record, I read the thread - but I didn't sit down and memorize who said what and posted which pictures. I was asking for your specific opinion and not considering if you'd posted pics.


You asked which cuts I thought she was drawn poorly in. I had posted thumbnails showing the relevant intervals (which is actually only a fraction of her time onscreen, but still enough to be thoroughly distracting). Would you prefer exact cut numbers?

"Keep the original head, deepen the chest, broaden the shoulders somewhat, and lengthen the thighs"

Sounds to me like you want to keep it excessively thin, with a deeper chest, broader shoulders, and longer thighs - which sounds exactly like a yaoi character design. Hence the reason I said "Because that design scheme sounds a lot like (yaoi)"


It sounds exactly like some of the Eva's original features, to me. By that logic, then, the Evas' original design is that of a yaoi character? Hoo, boy. I'm sure that's exactly what Anno and Yamashita were going for. Image

For the record, I said nothing about excessive thinness. In EoE, EVA-02's thighs were often drawn disconcertingly short, relative to the lower leg. (Then, I might be confused and thinking of something else.)

Originally posted on: 21-Jan-2005, 06:09 GMT

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Postby bjamieson [ANF] » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:39 pm

Reichu wrote:You asked which cuts I thought she was drawn poorly in. I had posted thumbnails showing the relevant intervals (which is actually only a fraction of her time onscreen, but still enough to be thoroughly distracting). Would you prefer exact cut numbers?


Oh my god - can we drop this already?

Did you read what I said?

See where I say, "but I didn't sit down and memorize who said what and posted which pictures. I was asking for your specific opinion and not considering if you'd posted pics." ?

What's with the attitude?

It sounds exactly like some of the Eva's original features, to me. By that logic, then, the Evas' original design is that of a yaoi character? Hoo, boy. I'm sure that's exactly what Anno and Yamashita were going for. Image


Okay - you specifically said were listing *changes*, as in 'in addition to the original' design'.

"I still think a more graceful transition from the old design to a more "individualized" one would have been HIGHLY preferable. <snip> Keep the original head, deepen the chest, broaden the shoulders somewhat, and lengthen the thighs..."

The way this is stated, it sounds like you want to original design, plus these changes - which results in a very gaunt, very thin, very slight design - aka, a traditional yaoi design. That's all I was saying. I'm merely looking for a history and reasoning behind finding thiis type of design aesthetically pleasing, since I do not.

Make sense?

Jesus christ...

Originally posted on: 21-Jan-2005, 06:33 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:39 pm

Don't have a cow, man. What you intepret as an "attitude" was merely my natural response to a perceived hostile edginess in your tone. Clearly this is one of those two-way misinterpretations that takes the fun out of forums.

I'm merely looking for a history and reasoning behind finding thiis type of design aesthetically pleasing, since I do not.


Putting :cough: yaoi aside, the original design of the Evas, with the wacky proportions and everything, is noteworthy in the sense that they were intentionally designed to look unlike any 'mecha' that had come before. For me, it is also part of their charm. The thinness could be exaggerated to excess at times (depends on the artist), but overall I find them very majestic and awe-inspiring -- athletic gracility, combined with a sort of raw savagery ('enormous power restrained'). For all of their human qualities, the way in which they are exaggerated gives them a slightly 'alien', or uncanny, feel, which is entirely appropriate.

Granted, "aesthetically pleasing" is an entirely subjective thing.

We discussed in a past thread about how it would have been neat if the Evas, rather than all being carbon copies of one another (with different heads and slightly different getups), exhibited some kind of individual variation. That is what I was referring to when I said "I still think a more graceful transition from the old design to a more 'individualized' one would have been HIGHLY preferable" -- a transition that did not involve dumbing down EVA-02 to the degree they did for the movie.

If you don't have a problem with it, that's fine and good for you. But hopefully you can at least see what I mean about her looking more crappy than usual when she is drawn like this. If not... Well, my son, then you are beyond my help. Image

Originally posted on: 21-Jan-2005, 07:24 GMT

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Postby bjamieson [ANF] » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:39 pm

Reichu wrote:Don't have a cow, man. What you intepret as an "attitude" was merely my natural response to a perceived hostile edginess in your tone.


Which came from what I perceived as a hostile (well, actually dismissive) tone in the form of, "You apparently didn't read the entire thread..." and the following.

Woops Image_

But hopefully you can at least see what I mean about her looking more crappy than usual when she is drawn like this. If not... Well, my son, then you are beyond my help. Image


Oh, yeah - I understand why you feel that way, I just think a little meat on Eva-02's bones was a good thing. Image

Originally posted on: 21-Jan-2005, 07:33 GMT


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