Fed up with the nonbelievers

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Shinji-kun
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Fed up with the nonbelievers

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Postby Shinji-kun » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:21 pm

On other forums, in youtube and in the anime community in general, there's always some jerk who flames EVA, saying that it is not complex or deep.

:asuka_geh:

It just pisses me off. People like Daryl Sarat, of the Anime World Order podcast, insult Eva, calling it just an "angst fest" or mindless. Yet surprisingly they have nothing to backup their claims. The ignorance of people like this sickens me to no end.

So, yeah, let's rant about times when we put those who insulted Eva in their place.

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Postby TheWaffleCult » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:30 pm

This probably belongs in Chit Chat.

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Postby Ornette » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:10 pm

I have no problem with people insulting or making fun of Eva. It's a cartoon. Who cares?

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Postby Logan Payne » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:12 pm

Ornette wrote:I have no problem with people insulting or making fun of Eva. It's a cartoon. Who cares?


Their loss.

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Postby Captain_Morgan » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:17 pm

A lot of people look into the puddle that is Eva and somehow see an ocean.

Yes, there is something there, but some people tend to take it too far.

Ornette wrote:I have no problem with people insulting or making fun of Eva. It's a cartoon. Who cares?


QFT

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Postby roblucci01 » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:22 pm

I don't mind if people criticize or hate Eva for various reasons, but I feel if they are incorrect/ making things up then they should be prepared for a counter argument. I'm this same way for other anime and games as well.

However, if someone has legitimately tried Eva and hates/ dislikes it for reasons that have ground and make sense, then I'm cool with that.
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:24 pm

Meh, I've encountered plenty of these people. You can either ignore them or take the time to actually dismantle their flimsy, shallow, and sometimes downright fallacious arguments as to why they feel NGE isn't a great work of art. For someone who's seriously spent time studying its complexities, depths, and intricacies it becomes easier and easier to defend its merits and demolish claims against it. I don't worry about it too much; there likely isn't a single great, important work of art or artist that hasn't had their detractors. But over time they fall by the wayside and if the work is great (and NGE is no less than an artistic masterpiece) it's still there.

Captain_Morgan wrote:A lot of people look into the puddle that is Eva and somehow see an ocean. Yes, there is something there, but some people tend to take it too far.
More like people see the surface of an ocean and dive in and discover an enormous world full of life, depth, complexity, and profundity. If Eva is a puddle then so is War & Peace, Ulysses, Beethoven's 9th, the Sistine Chapel, etc.
Last edited by Eva Yojimbo on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby schismatics » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:25 pm

Meh. It basically comes down to opinion.

What ya gunna do? :shrug:

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:26 pm

schismatics wrote:Meh. It basically comes down to opinion.
Not all opinions are equal. ;)
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby Reichu » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:30 pm

Ornette wrote:It's a cartoon. Who cares?

Does the statement hold if it's something other than a cartoon? I'm just checking.
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Postby schismatics » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:32 pm

Eva Yojimbo wrote:
schismatics wrote:Meh. It basically comes down to opinion.
Not all opinions are equal. ;)


Point duly noted. ;)

But on topic - some of my friends don't like Evangelion just because of the sheer complexity of the whole thing (and that Shinji's a bitch but they don't badmouth it except for Shinji and I can still attempt to discuss some parts of it with them. However it should be noted that in their opinion, Code Geass and Cowboy Bebop are the most amazing things ever to grace the genre of anime.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:39 pm

Captain_Morgan wrote:A lot of people look into the puddle that is Eva and somehow see an ocean.
Looking into the puddle and seeing themselves looking back would probably be closer to the mark, I feel.
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Postby Shinji-kun » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:44 pm

Eva, is the most complex, awe inspirng, brilliant work i've seen. Calling it a cartoon seems inappropriate.

Has anyone got a story where they completely owned someone who was insulting Eva?

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Postby Joseph the PRPD » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:01 pm

Whether someone says it's not deep or anything, it's not a big deal. They simply couldn't get into it or would not watch for stupid reasons. Example: A former friend of mine said that he preferred ONE PIECE to Eva because "There is not enough action from the individual characters in Eva."

I remember seeing somewhere that someone did not really like it because "it did not have enough violence or sex" or other won't watch because it's not like other shonen animes like Bleach or Dragonball.

Another people may not like it simply because of the characters or to them it's hard to follow.

But in the end it really isn't a big deal. If someone does not see the huge meaning behind Eva then that is on them. It's not something to get worked up over.
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Postby NAveryW » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:08 pm

Shinji-kun wrote:Calling it a cartoon seems inappropriate.
And yet it is one.
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Postby Ornette » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:23 pm

Reichu wrote:
Ornette wrote:It's a cartoon. Who cares?

Does the statement hold if it's something other than a cartoon? I'm just checking.

Sure, you can stick anything in there and it would still be true. You can stick "tv show", "movie", "random entertainment", or whatever, in place of "cartoon" and that statement would still hold.

Even if the person is an idiot and is making up stuff, I still can't bring the least bit of "care" out of me about it.

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Postby schismatics » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:29 pm

Ornette wrote: I still can't bring the least bit of "care" out of me about it.


You're a badass. :toothy:

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:36 pm

Ornette wrote:
Reichu wrote:
Ornette wrote:It's a cartoon. Who cares?

Does the statement hold if it's something other than a cartoon? I'm just checking.
Sure, you can stick anything in there and it would still be true. You can stick "tv show", "movie", "random entertainment", or whatever, in place of "cartoon" and that statement would still hold.
I guess my only objection would be that some people obviously DO care. Some people care about religion and politics; I'll take art (in all its forms) over either any day. It doesn't make me a bad person! :spout:

Shinji-kun wrote:Eva, is the most complex, awe inspirng, brilliant work i've seen.
It's certainly up there with the best. I'd certainly recommend some of the great films for comparison if you haven't seen them (2001:ASO is a work I find similarly complex, awe-inspiring, and brilliant).

Shinji-kun wrote:Calling it a cartoon seems inappropriate.
Technically it should simply fall under the medium/label of animation. The term cartoon actually evolved from still comic strips and was transplanted on to early animation that was inspired by those comics. Now cartoons are traditionally associated with works that have their strongest roots in that form, but it's also associated with more childlike and juvenile types of animation and I think people rather ignorantly use it to describe all animated series regardless of content and inspiration. NGE isn't a "cartoon" unless "cartoon" is being used to describe all animation.

Shinji-kun wrote:Has anyone got a story where they completely owned someone who was insulting Eva?
The vast majority of these discussions I've entered into are abandoned by those on the other side who exit, stage left when they realize they're dealing with someone who actually knows what they're talking about and is willing to argue it convincingly. But there have been a couple of epics I've gotten involved in. One can be read Here. These were actually back when I was (fairly) new to the series and probably wouldn't have lasted that long if I knew all I knew now.
Last edited by Eva Yojimbo on Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby NAveryW » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:01 pm

I can't believe nobody's quoted Charlie the Unicorn yet. We're making progress.
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Postby backseatjesus » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:19 pm

I don't really mind if people make fun of Eva, but when they go as far as making fun of someone for liking it, It kind of ticks me off because I am a fan and I'm a living contradiction to their generalization.


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