Rei, the Moon, and menstruation

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Postby Fuzzy Chickens [ANF] » Sat May 16, 2009 7:46 pm

It's relatively common knowledge that Rei is associated with the Moon. I have also heard the notion that Rei refers to herself in the line "a woman who does not bleed," and means that she's sterile. Given the temporal similarities of menstrual and lunar cycles, could there be a triple parallel? Is this why the Black Moon bleeds in EoE, or why the stream of blood coming out of Uber-Rei's neck seems pointed at the moon? Or is this just the Dextromethorphan skrewing with my head?

Originally posted on: 16-Sep-2004, 02:59 GMT

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Postby Knives [ANF] » Sat May 16, 2009 7:46 pm

... I don't think it means she's "sterile" necessarily. She's fourteen ... she just hasn't gotten her period yet, you know?

And as for all those other big words ... Image

Originally posted on: 16-Sep-2004, 14:30 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sat May 16, 2009 7:46 pm

Knives wrote:... I don't think it means she's "sterile" necessarily. She's fourteen ... she just hasn't gotten her period yet, you know?


With breasts that big? Yeah, right. Image

Originally posted on: 16-Sep-2004, 15:55 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Sat May 16, 2009 7:46 pm

While we're on the subject of Rei and menstruation, I wonder if anyone else has picked up on this...

Image
Reichu has used this scene before to emphasize the point of just what LCL is, and where, in particular, it comes from. In that context, I think it is interesting to take a look at the scene in #23, with Rei II and Rei I/EVA-00/Armisael:

Image
Hmm... It seems that she's leaking from the groinal area...

Image
Jeeze! is this what the makers of feminine hygene products refer to as "heavy flow"?

Image
"Don't mind me, I've been doing this for billions of years..."

Originally posted on: 16-Sep-2004, 16:39 GMT

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Postby HeWhoPostsStuff [ANF] » Sat May 16, 2009 7:46 pm

I might've asked this before at some point, but I've wondered, in relation to this, whether or not the word rendered "bleed" in Rei's famous monologue could possibly translated differently, or refers to a specific type of "bleeding"...I wondered if it could be somehow related to emotions, sort of like the English expression "bleeding heart," or anything like that...

Originally posted on: 16-Sep-2004, 17:53 GMT

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Postby Fuzzy Chickens [ANF] » Sat May 16, 2009 7:46 pm

Shin, your ability to notice stuff like that is completely inhuman. Just why were you looking at Rei's crotch in that scene anyway?

Looking back, there does seem to be a definite blood/moon association in EoE. But what I couldn't put into words before goes a little further. It helps to quote a Magic card, Rampant Growth, whose flavor text reads "Rath forces plants from its surface as one presses whey from cheese." If Rei and the Moon are both barren, but the Angels (who are very much alive) come from the moon, does that imply something about life being forced into or from Rei? That would fit with Gendo "forcing" Adam into her...

Additionally, I heard that in Judeo-Christian mythology, Armisael was the angel responsible for (among other things) pregnancy and childbirth. This meshes with Zerogouki appearing "pregnant" during its final battle, and with the Armisael/Rei bleeding in Shin's lovely screencaps. For those of us who subscribe to the idea that Rei survived that fight (and I have new evidence for that, BTW) as a result of the fusion, and that Armisael is still hidden somewhere deep inside Rei's mind and is who Rei talks to in episode 25, this could mean that Armisael could have given Rei a "gift" of fertility. This may be a factor in Rei's betrayal of Gendo in EoE.

Well, now you guys know what I consider a fringe theory Image

Originally posted on: 17-Sep-2004, 08:39 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sat May 16, 2009 7:46 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:In that context, I think it is interesting to take a look at the scene in #23, with Rei II and Rei I/EVA-00/Armisael:


I thought we had established that Rei 2 is talking with Armisael alone...? I just don't see how Rei 1/EVA-00 factors into the conversation, the usage of the deformed Rei 1 "laughing face" aside. Rei herself lets us know that the voice she hears is neither hers nor the "myself within Eva".

Image
Hmm... It seems that she's leaking from the groinal area...


This is one of those things that I picked up on a while back, but never really thought of mentioning on the forum. Image On an aside, how can she be leaking like that with the plugsuit on? Technicalities, technicalities!

Jeeze! is this what the makers of feminine hygene products refer to as "heavy flow"?


If it's THAT bad, they'd probably recommend going to the hospital immediately.

"Don't mind me, I've been doing this for billions of years..."


Who? Armisael? Rei? Or Lilith? It's possible that Lilith was only bleeding like that after being separated from Shogouki. If she'd been doing that for billions of years whilst buried inside the Black Moon, where the hell would it all go??

HeWhoPostsStuff wrote:I might've asked this before at some point, but I've wondered, in relation to this, whether or not the word rendered "bleed" in Rei's famous monologue could possibly translated differently, or refers to a specific type of "bleeding"...I wondered if it could be somehow related to emotions, sort of like the English expression "bleeding heart," or anything like that...


Oh, there you go again... How many times have I had to check translations for you now? Image

The relevant part in Rei's monologue goes,

Chi no nioi. Chi o nagasanai onna. Akai tsuchi kara tsukurareta ningen. Otoko to onna kara tsukurareta ningen.

or

The scent of blood. A woman who does not shed blood (i.e., bleed). Humanity, made from the red soil. Humanity, made from man and woman.

If you're looking for possible idiomic uses of nagasu (pour, flow, shed, etc.) here, I'm pretty sure they don't exist. Following the line "the scent of blood", it makes perfect sense that Rei is speaking quite literally about bleeding. So... deal with it! Image

Fuzzy Chickens wrote:Shin, your ability to notice stuff like that is completely inhuman. Just why were you looking at Rei's crotch in that scene anyway?


It's not a matter of staring at her crotch, it's a matter of seeing something funny floating in the water and tracing it back to its source.

If Rei and the Moon are both barren, but the Angels (who are very much alive) come from the moon, does that imply something about life being forced into or from Rei? That would fit with Gendo "forcing" Adam into her...


I think you need to take into consideration that "Moon", in NGE, also refers to the two "seeds of life", the Black Moon and White Moon... Both of which originally held a source of life, so any derivative lifeform could ultimately be traced back to the relevant "moon". Not sure what point I was going to make with that, though.

Additionally, I heard that in Judeo-Christian mythology, Armisael was the angel responsible for (among other things) pregnancy and childbirth. This meshes with Zerogouki appearing "pregnant" during its final battle, and with the Armisael/Rei bleeding in Shin's lovely screencaps.


EVA-00's "pregnancy" is really just Armisael's biomass after being absorbed into the core and 'converted' into that blobby pink crap... I have no idea how that's supposed to tie into Armi/Rei's bleeding, though.

For those of us who subscribe to the idea that Rei survived that fight


"Us"? Far as I knew, it was just you. ;;p

and that Armisael is still hidden somewhere deep inside Rei's mind and is who Rei talks to in episode 25


The script tells us that she is talking to Rei 1 there, not Armisael.

this could mean that Armisael could have given Rei a "gift" of fertility. This may be a factor in Rei's betrayal of Gendo in EoE.


You come to some interesting conclusions... In my oh-so-insignifant opinion, though, they're pretty "out there."

Originally posted on: 16-Sep-2004, 23:27 GMT

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Postby Fuzzy Chickens [ANF] » Sat May 16, 2009 7:46 pm

It's not really a conclusion, just speculation. Even I don't think there's much to support it.

I refer to Zerogouki's "pregnancy" as such because that is what it resembles. The abdomen becomes swollen and very rounded, but the rest of the body maintains its normal size and shape. I think it's just too similar to be a coincidence.

The (ep25) script tells us that she is talking to Rei 1 there, not Armisael


In the script for Episode 23, what name is given to the menstruating Armisael in Rei's dream sequence?

Originally posted on: 17-Sep-2004, 00:16 GMT

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Postby Knives [ANF] » Sat May 16, 2009 7:46 pm

Quote: Quote:
For those of us who subscribe to the idea that Rei survived that fight
"Us"? Far as I knew, it was just you. ;;p
... yeah ... as far as that matter goes, even I (with my "crazy" [compared to accepted beliefs here] ideas) can't support you on that one.

And for which reason I'll mention here given this statement:
The script tells us that she is talking to Rei 1 there, not Armisael.

Prepare for contraversy (this isn't technically meant to stir debate — I'd like to just open a Fundamentals of Eva thread later this weekend, since I'm finding that many issues discussed end up falling back on other issues that come first ... and it all just becomes a big mess ...) — but I digress.

As I was saying about the quote. How is it that if Rei contains the soul of Lilith that she's able to talk to "Rei I"? Wouldn't they be the same person?

Unless of course my theory's correct in that Rei I, II and III are all individuals with individual souls (though I must submit that there is some thing which connects them — what that thing is, is merely speculation on my part, but not a matter for debate in this thread).

Originally posted on: 17-Sep-2004, 00:49 GMT

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Postby Fuzzy Chickens [ANF] » Sat May 16, 2009 7:46 pm

We see all the characters talking to themselves in Episode 25, and I'm pretty sure each of them had only one soul.

Originally posted on: 17-Sep-2004, 00:56 GMT

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Postby Brigitanastasia [ANF] » Sat May 16, 2009 7:47 pm

It could be that Rei 2 is sterile in her human form but not in her Lillith form. In #23, Rei 2 hovers above the LCL, as if such things don't "touch" her.

Originally posted on: 17-Sep-2004, 01:06 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sat May 16, 2009 7:47 pm

Fuzzy Chickens wrote:I refer to Zerogouki's "pregnancy" as such because that is what it resembles. The abdomen becomes swollen and very rounded, but the rest of the body maintains its normal size and shape. I think it's just too similar to be a coincidence.


The ABDOMEN does not become swollen; it remains under the armor, same as always. What you are referring to is the growth that breaks out of the core.

In the script for Episode 23, what name is given to the menstruating Armisael in Rei's dream sequence?


The rather ambiguous "Rei no koe" -- "Rei's voice" or "Rei voice". It could imply either that the voice IS hers or that it merely sounds like hers. Fun, huh?

Knives wrote:Prepare for contraversy (this isn't technically meant to stir debate — I'd like to just open a Fundamentals of Eva thread later this weekend, since I'm finding that many issues discussed end up falling back on other issues that come first ... and it all just becomes a big mess ...) — but I digress.


Well, you could always go and read old threads -- heaven forbid!

As I was saying about the quote. How is it that if Rei contains the soul of Lilith that she's able to talk to "Rei I"? Wouldn't they be the same person?

Unless of course my theory's correct in that Rei I, II and III are all individuals with individual souls (though I must submit that there is some thing which connects them — what that thing is, is merely speculation on my part, but not a matter for debate in this thread).


They have the same soul; the aspect that differs is the mind. "Soul" (tamashii) and "mind" (kokoro) are ideas you hear a lot in NGE, and my interpretation is thus: The soul is the basic unit, and the mind is all of the extra stuff that gets added on through the process of living -- personality, memories, and all that fun stuff. I phrased it better during some big discussion I had with Wigs, but I don't feel like digging that up at the moment...

Fuzzy Chickens wrote:We see all the characters talking to themselves in Episode 25, and I'm pretty sure each of them had only one soul.


But when the other characters talk to themselves, I don't think their various incarnations are given numberical designations.

Originally posted on: 17-Sep-2004, 03:53 GMT

Knives [ANF]
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Postby Knives [ANF] » Sat May 16, 2009 7:47 pm

Well, you could always go and read old threads -- heaven forbid!

Well ... if you go back to May, I'm commenting in practically every thread from April through May 15th-ish.

The point I was making is that in regards to the matters under discussion, talking about each one seperately, simultaneously accomplishes little, considering that so many of said topics are inter-connected and depend on the foundation of one another.

For instance, currently, I believe I've been posting in at least four if not five topics (mainly with you, I believe, Reichu) — though I've cut back the last couple days given other taks outside of Eva debate ( Image ). But you can see how successful that's been. Arguing five things at once does not constitute for a coherent and thoughtful discussion.

As for the Rei comments:
They have the same soul; the aspect that differs is the mind. "Soul" (tamashii) and "mind" (kokoro) are ideas you hear a lot in NGE, and my interpretation is thus: The soul is the basic unit, and the mind is all of the extra stuff that gets added on through the process of living -- personality, memories, and all that fun stuff. I phrased it better during some big discussion I had with Wigs, but I don't feel like digging that up at the moment...

I was discussing this with Wigs back in May as well, before losing access to the internet. Rather than get into it now, I'll just say in regards to the translations ... I'd assume I'd have to know more about how the language works in order to understand the intracacies of "tamashii" and "kokoro" if such intracacies do exist. Were I to discuss the issue now, I would take a position which would argue that one may — and should — use mind and soul practically interchangably. Though I will grant that perhaps, given that my education in philosophy does not encompass the Japanese tradition, some of what I understand, may be different from common Japanese understanding. But even given that, it doesn't negate having room for discussion on such matters. But again ... another time ... another more "coherent" thread Image .

Originally posted on: 17-Sep-2004, 20:16 GMT

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Postby Fuzzy Chickens [ANF] » Sat May 16, 2009 7:47 pm

Reichu wrote:The ABDOMEN does not become swollen; it remains under the armor, same as always. What you are referring to is the growth that breaks out of the core.


I could have sworn that the aforementioned "growth" eventually went away, and the big bulgy pregnancy-looking thing was something completely different.

Originally posted on: 18-Sep-2004, 09:55 GMT


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