Question about Asuka and Shinji

Baz · Ireul Joined: 21 Mar 2009 Gender: Male

Mr. Tines wrote:

Every single one of us is the devil inside.

Oh Mama! I think I've died and gone to heaven. Uh, I mean, my point exactly. Or maybe I mean, I see your point. Or, uh, thanks!

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**Sailor Star Dust** · Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject:

Um, could we please get the "final scene Asuka's deathwish" debate out of this discussion? That belongs in something like a final scene thread.

The topic for this thread deals with whether or not they actually had sex among other things (which has been already disprove anyway).

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NemZ · Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:04 pm Post subject:

Mr. Tines wrote:

Shinji has already choked Asuka to death one and a half times by the end of EoE.

Exactly, and I expect it would be her turn to dish out a good well-deserved throttling.

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The Invincible Shinji · Israfel Joined: 22 Mar 2009 Location: Tokyo-3

Sailor Star Dust wrote:

Um, could we please get the "final scene Asuka's deathwish" debate out of this discussion? That belongs in something like a final scene thread.

The topic for this thread deals with whether or not they actually had sex among other things (which has been already disprove anyway).

I agree, now that i think about it all we're doing right now is taking shots at each others theorys, none of us are going to convince each other of anything different cause we all have our own opinions on the matter so if the sex thing has already been proved false then why are we still posting here? sorry it got off topic.

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**Reichu** · Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:16 pm Post subject:

The Invincible Shinji wrote:

all we're doing right now is taking shots at each others theorys

People come to the Discussion Forest to just post theories and not have them actually be subjected to... discussion? Dai shokku!

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Alaska Slim · Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:01 am Post subject:

NemZ wrote:

Alaska Slim wrote:

Then explain his lovely reaction to seeing Asuka's mangled Eva, you know the one that initiated 3rd impact?

He may not have realized how much he cared for her, but the feelings were there... and were indirectly the cause for the world almost ending.

I'm not saying he doesn't care... I'm saying it isn't romantic love.

And I'm saying I wouldn't be so sure. After the moment Shinji saw her Eva, and the tree of life begins to form, he enters a schizophrenic-fugue state in which he and Asuka are back in Misato's apartment; oddly enough, at the exact time where he and Asuka first kissed.

The Asuka he sees there is not Asuka herself, but rather the image of her as he himself sees of her in his mind. This is all a fantasy, his fantasy, but yet still she rejects his exasperated feelings, showing he views her as being unrequited, unattainable, unwilling to listen, and yet despite all that he still felt drawn to come to her, and to her personally.

What's more, think of his reaction after this, the throwing of the chair, his outbursts of "Don't leave me alone! Don't abandon me! PLEASE DON'T KILL ME! ", and ultimately the strangling of Asuka herself. He views her rejection not with acceptance, but with complete pain and anguish, and again it's inside his own mind and yet, he still can't accept the self-created "inedible" rejection, something he had done with just about everyone else, he had accepted "Everyone hates me". He then lashes out, because he is attempting to make Asuka feel his pain, to understand his frustration, but why her? And furthermore, why didn't it continue to anyone else? This was kept strictly to Asuka alone.

In fact, in the whole of pre-instrumentality, their relationship comes catastrophically to the forefront, with her influence and input becoming greater then that of even his own mother, whose absence had until then been his primary psychological trauma.

For someone whom he doesn't love, and considers merely option "D", he sure as hell does thinks of her alot, and with great emphasis.

Then there are the live action scenes. When they are introduced, we get a couple minutes of Misato, and a bit of Rei in passing, but who is the main character? Whom do we follow through nearly the entire narrative? What name is it that Shinji decides to call out, in assertion of his presence? Asuka.

Now I can understand there's a place between "care" and " love" which is not reserved merely for those of relation, however, it is the above, and this final point that causes me to wonder if, for the two of them, it stopped there.

At last we come to the beach scene itself, that great stir pot of controversy and bruised egos (who knows, maybe I'll be its next victim).
However my focus is not what occurs there, but the scenery, which is a throwback to Kaji's line in episode 18:

"woman will always seem to be on a distant shore. The gulf that separates male and female, is broader and deeper than any ocean."

Yet in this scene we have Asuka and Shinji lying right next to each other. I'm sure there's some other extended metaphor implied along with this (perhaps along the lines of the Hedgehog's Dilemma), but my point here is how Asuka and Shinji's relationship had become an item of focus.

It was by machinations of fate or the character's individual will which lead to the two them being brought together there, either way, their feelings are implied to be rather profound, romantic or not, though that may very well rely completely on just what you define "love" to be.

Now of course there's always that "official" DVD art image with the two of them holding hands while walking down the beach, but I'm always among the first to advocate taking those things with a grain of salt.

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**Sailor Star Dust** · Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:46 pm Post subject:

Alaska Slim: Good post. But just an fyi, that hand-holding image is actually from the artbook Die Strene. There's also other official artwork of, say, Asuka and Rei as well as Shinji and Kaworu but you do make a good point to mention that.

Also, I split that Instrumentality discussion stuff and merged it into that other thread. Please discuss that there.

Quote:

The Asuka he sees there is not Asuka herself, but rather the image of her as he himself sees of her in his mind. This is all a fantasy, his fantasy, but yet still she rejects his exasperated feelings, showing he views her as being unrequited, unattainable, unwilling to listen, and yet despite all that he still felt drawn to come to her, and to her personally.

Yes it really is Asuka. See that other thread for more infromation about this.

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"In other words, whatever Shinji and Asuka end up doing on that beach is no longer the business of the storyteller or the audience; it is their business alone." - Jornophelanthas

**Reichu** · Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:31 pm Post subject:

I deleted my post and the thread disappears, resynch doesn't make the thread reappear, so I'm just going to make a spam post so it shows up again. lol

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Shinji needs to be cool like Kaji and grow some melons. -Dr. Nick
I shall file this under things that were never given much thought by the production team. -Anonymous_Evafan
Farmer Hoggett knew that little ideas that tickled and nagged and refused to go away should never be ignored, for in them lie the seeds of destiny. -Narrator, "Babe"

DummyPlug · Tunniel Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Location: Finding the limit.

Alaska Slim wrote:

Now of course there's always that "official" DVD art image with the two of them holding hands while walking down the beach, but I'm always among the first to advocate taking those things with a grain of salt.

I haven't seen that one, can somebody throw me a link? I can't seem to find it, all I found is Asuka sitting like after her mind rape, doesn't look very happy about seeing Shinji. And Shinji standing like a dork.

I do think that of all the -somewhat gratuitous- relationships Shinji seemed to have if he came close to loving anyone in that way, it has to be Asuka.

But Asuka, I just think she's too f$cked up to love anyone. Kaji is the only one that she doesn't hate in my view.

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pikadourei · Embryo Joined: 14 Jul 2006 Location: netherworld

Like Sailor Star Dust said, it's from Die Sterne.. it's post-third impact.

DummyPlug · Tunniel Joined: 01 Apr 2009 Location: Finding the limit.

Thanks, I checked it out. It seems there are even crazier things happening on that book than Shinji holding hands with Asuka. For one thing, there seems to be more Kaworu/Shinji stuff than any other combination...

Alaska Slim wrote:

And furthermore, why didn't it continue to anyone else? This was kept strictly to Asuka alone.

Even though he hated to be rejected by Asuka more than anyone else, she did make it clear that it was because she was his last option in a way. So everything was lost when even Asuka couldn't accept him. Plus when we talk about rejection, Asuka said that he came to her because a number of people hurt him/scare him including Misato and his Mother, this is not about romantic love it's more about just opening up IMO.

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Gamer_2k4 · Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:14 pm Post subject:

Alaska Slim wrote:

The Asuka he sees there is not Asuka herself, but rather the image of her as he himself sees of her in his mind. This is all a fantasy, his fantasy, but yet still she rejects his exasperated feelings, showing he views her as being unrequited, unattainable, unwilling to listen, and yet despite all that he still felt drawn to come to her, and to her personally.

I thought those thoughts and images were the result of the minds merging during Instrumentality. That's how he sees scenes with Misato that he naturally would have no memory of. Therefore, wouldn't it be fair to say that the Asuka in his mind is there because Asuka's mind is there? And wouldn't it also be fair to say that's that Asuka that IS, rather than the Asuka that's Shinji's perception?

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Alaska Slim · Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:22 pm Post subject:

DummyPlug wrote:

Even though he hated to be rejected by Asuka more than anyone else, she did make it clear that it was because she was his last option in a way. So everything was lost when even Asuka couldn't accept him. Plus when we talk about rejection, Asuka said that he came to her because a number of people hurt him/scare him including Misato and his Mother, this is not about romantic love it's more about just opening up IMO.

You're in the wrong thread, go here.

Gamer_2k4 wrote:

I thought those thoughts and images were the result of the minds merging during Instrumentality.

They hadn't all "turned to goo" yet, so no. Instrumentality itself doesn't begin until after the apartment scene.

The rest I've put in the above listed thread.

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"I blame teenage girls for everything." - Dr. Dave

"God is in his Heaven, and free men walk upon the Earth" - Rev. Robert Sirico, President of the Acton Institute