Shikinami Asuka Langley...?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Legendary
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Postby Legendary » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:45 pm

JimmyWolk wrote:Problem is that this symbolism of the new name is hardly charming for Asuka fans either, seeing how it implies her as below Rei... >_>


Actually, the Shikinami was launched and completed first, if wiki is to be trusted.

The kanji used for the ship and for Asuka are different. Asuka's two symbols 式波 each have a few meanings. The first can mean "equation", "formula", "expression", "ceremony", "style", or "enforcement of regulations" according to Rikaichan. The second means "wave" or "breaker."

Any guesses as to which definitions we should use and what they mean as far as significance goes?

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:47 pm

I'd say if Asuka's last name can be changed than don't expect SUPERFICIAL changes.
My personal largest hope concerning Asuka-

A: She's written so that she's completely removed from any fan shipping. Asuka and Shinji is the worst romantic pairing in anime history. People merely put them together because the two share so much screentime together. Asuka and Shinji together would only end with Shinji killing Asuka 12 years later when both have become white trash.

B: Asuka does NOT live with Shinji & Misato again. It works great in the series but in the film could come off too sitcom'y.

C: Just make her NEW.

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Postby NAveryW » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:47 pm

Thank you, Gendo'sPapa. That seems to be the most intelligent thing I've seen anyone here say.

iamsynch: That's because there aren't any other animated film series (as far as I know) which merit such analysis. GitS, perhaps, but that's about all I can think of.
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Postby Lucretius » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:50 pm

Gendo'sPapa wrote:
Grow up. This is all coming off as very VERY Juvenile. You're wasting your time here. It's not analytical criticism, it's a fanboy throwing a hissy fit.


And um, wouldn't responding to said juvenility at great length also qualify as juvenile? And yes, that makes this post triply juvenile. :stars: Honestly, eveyone's allowed to have their own preferences; can't the name-calling and personal attacks stop already?

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Postby NAveryW » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:55 pm

Rommel wrote:
NAveryW wrote:I'm not saying changing a character's surname isn't more drastic than those examples; I'm just saying that it's an extension of the same pattern.
And I'm saying it's not. Not one of the changes you mentioned directly affects the characters. You could say the pattern is changing the eye candy, but unfortunately for your analogy one of the main character's name is not eye candy. No one else had their name changed, thus no pattern, and no one had anything else related to their characters changed (you could maybe say Shinji acts differently at times, but those details are so slight and subtle as to be practically indistinguishable). They didn't rename him Shinji Shokaku.
Let's take a look at a pattern, shall we?

©©©®©®®

There exists a pattern in that seqence, and that pattern is red, green, red, green. Regardless of the fact that the last symbol is a � instead of a © or ®, the red-green pattern still exists. To say that Asuka's name change shows no part of a pattern is like saying that the doesn't belong to the red-green pattern.

Rommel wrote:As for obscure references, 'Soryu' is already an obscure reference. Hell, I can go even further than that: You can say than since both Langley and Soryu were aircraft carries, there's a certain etymological significance between them. The only significance in Shikinami is that it came after Ayanami, and they fact that it even sounds alike could be interpreted as an attempt to take away from Asuka's character as an individual.
There is just as much significance now as there was before, despite the change. I'm not arguing with the fact that the name Soryu was already an obscure reference. I'm just saying that nothing was lost in the change in terms of symbolism. I can understand people considering the name Soryu to be better aesthetically, though.
Last edited by NAveryW on Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Rommel » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:55 pm

Legendary wrote:
Actually, the Shikinami was launched and completed first, if wiki is to be trusted.


Edit: okay, technically you are correct, but your point isn't made. Ayanami was first.

Ayanami (N°45) - built at Fujinagata (laid down Jan 2, 1928)
Shikinami (N°46) - built at Maizuru Navy Yard (laid down July 6, 1928)

Also, the Type II Fubuki-class destroyers are know as Ayanami, meaning the Shikinami, as a Type II, is actually a subset of the Ayanami-class.

iamsynch: That's because there aren't any other animated film series (as far as I know) which merit such analysis. GitS, perhaps, but that's about all I can think of.


I think I just proved that.
:thumbsup:
Last edited by Rommel on Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:55 pm

I have no problems with someone expressing their opinion.

It's when something so small as a name change causes someone to dismiss an ARTIST and his work altogether and then mock him for being a hack for doing something NEW that I find it juvenile. I mean if you think the first film sucks for doing nothing drastically new than you can't legitimately bitch when something drastically new does occur just because it's happening to your "Favorite Character".

If Ritsuko suddenly became a man (she's one of my fave characters) then great. It's not the Ritsuko Akagi of the old show I loved anymore. It's something new. Something fresh. Exactly what I'm hoping someone will give me.

P.S. I'm gonna get out of this argument cause it's now a waste of time. Her name is (for Rebuild and it's offshoot merchandise ONLY) Asuka Langely Shikinami. If this fits in the overall scheme of the Rebuild storyline than perfect. If it's just a superficial change to highlight this is not the same girl we knew before, great.
It's Rebuild of Evangelion. Not REPEAT Of Evangelion

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:59 pm

What the man said.
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Postby Legendary » Sat Mar 14, 2009 7:59 pm

Rommel wrote:Ayanami (N°45) - built at Fujinagata
Shikinami (N°46) - built at Maizuru Navy Yard


Congratulations. You've proved their numbering. That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about launch dates. The Shiki was launched in June, the Aya in October, of the same year.

They might have been ordered differently, but I was pointing out that the Shikinami was finished quicker.

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Postby Rommel » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:14 pm

Legendary wrote:
Rommel wrote:Ayanami (N°45) - built at Fujinagata
Shikinami (N°46) - built at Maizuru Navy Yard


Congratulations. You've proved their numbering. That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about launch dates. The Shiki was launched in June, the Aya in October, of the same year.

They might have been ordered differently, but I was pointing out that the Shikinami was finished quicker.


I already edited my post, but it doesn't change the fact that Shikinami was a subclass of Ayanami.

Also, keel number designates precedence within a class according to some guy in JROTC.

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Postby Legendary » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:25 pm

Rommel: Shikinami was NOT a subclass of Ayanami. It belonged to the subclass Type II of the Fubuki-class destroyers. Type II is referred to as Ayanami-type because Ayanami was the first of the ships ordered, which also explains the numbering.

The numbering isn't keel number, it's hull designation. Ayanami may have been finished later, but it was laid down first. The numbering is part of construction and was abandoned as soon as they were completed and recieved names.


Lagann: There's a poster that shows the name change quite clearly.

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Postby Rommel » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:28 pm

Legendary wrote:Rommel: Shikinami was NOT a subclass of Ayanami. It belonged to the subclass Type II of the Fubuki-class destroyers. Type II is referred to as Ayanami-type because Ayanami was the first of the ships ordered, which also explains the numbering.


You made both my points with that sentence.

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Postby BobBQ » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:28 pm

Y'all been trolled.

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Postby Legendary » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:30 pm

Rommel wrote:
Legendary wrote:Rommel: Shikinami was NOT a subclass of Ayanami. It belonged to the subclass Type II of the Fubuki-class destroyers. Type II is referred to as Ayanami-type because Ayanami was the first of the ships ordered, which also explains the numbering.


You made both my points with that sentence.


The fact that Rei is the First and Asuka is the Second can't possibly have anything to do with this?

EDIT: Note also that they probably changed Asuka's name to fit Rei's and didn't want to change BOTH names. The Soryu isn't the second of something. The Ayanami is the first and has a second. That's probably all it is.

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Postby Twsa'teotu » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:36 pm

Gendo'sPapa wrote:
A: She's written so that she's completely removed from any fan shipping. Asuka and Shinji is the worst romantic pairing in anime history.


in that they bicker like a REAL couple, as opposed to some sort of idealized moe-harem-magical-girlfriend series? The flaws are what makes them so great!
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Postby Legendary » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:38 pm

Gendo'sPapa wrote:A: She's written so that she's completely removed from any fan shipping.


There is NO character who can be written in a way to avoid fan shipping. Case in point, the God of the Jews. A bunch of Jews in the early days tried to pair him up with Asherah, a female deity from one of the cultures in the area. If that kind of individual can't be saved from shipping, no one can.

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Postby Rommel » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:40 pm

Q

I have a bridge to sell you. I take cash, check, and credit cards.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:42 pm

Twsa'teotu wrote:
Gendo'sPapa wrote:
A: She's written so that she's completely removed from any fan shipping. Asuka and Shinji is the worst romantic pairing in anime history.


in that they bicker and have a messy break up like a REAL couple


Fixed, and yes -- that may be realistic, but is deffo not romantic
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Postby Rommel » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:47 pm

Legendary wrote:
Gendo'sPapa wrote:A: She's written so that she's completely removed from any fan shipping.


There is NO character who can be written in a way to avoid fan shipping. Case in point, the God of the Jews. A bunch of Jews in the early days tried to pair him up with Asherah, a female deity from one of the cultures in the area. If that kind of individual can't be saved from shipping, no one can.


I would have said Jesus and Mary Magdalene was probably the best example of shipping, but maybe that was just Dan Brown.

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Postby Lucretius » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:52 pm

^ And the Nag Hammadi Library.

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

Life is a continuous nut-kicking contest where your turn comes last if ever. -majlund

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