Is Evangelion Flawed?

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Leader Desslock [ANF]
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Postby Leader Desslock [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:15 pm

Ark wrote:What are the continuety errors?

Woudn't those be the things folks mentioned earlier in this thread? Cigarettes disappearing, clothes, angels' damage disappearing/reappearing, flipped frames and so forth? Little meaningless details that show where the thing was animated by different teams, or out of sequence, edited quickly, etc.?

It's been a few years since I've seen it, but I remembered picking up on a few of them. Nothing that affected the story, just glitches. If I owned the series, I'd find a few for you. Anyone who does own the series wanna throw out a few more, here?

I mean, none of them were as bad as, say, Yamato, where the ship can be blown half to pieces in one frame, then hardly be scratched in the next shot. Or the 3rd gun deck would fall off in one scene, then be replaced by the time they reached cruising altitude. Those are more blatant examples, but again, they didn't ruin the series.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 18:42 GMT

Ark [ANF]
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Postby Ark [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:15 pm

I thought you meant in terms of plot continuety.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 18:55 GMT

Seele08 [ANF]
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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:15 pm

Oooh I just found a new continuaty error. Vlad's hair. Vlad normally has sideburns that come part way down his face, but in one scene in episode 2, the sideburns go all the way to the end of his jawline. Duuuude this must have some deeeeeeep signfigance, or the art department just screwed up.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 19:37 GMT

Dr. Nick [ANF]
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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:15 pm

Leader Desslock wrote:Question For Anyone: Do most people understand the basic meaning of Evangelion after their first viewing?

I sure as hell didn't. But I guess it depends largely on the viewer.

That's how new folks see Evangelion. But what about the hardcore fans? Well, even those who've seen Evangelion until their eyes turn red and their hair turns white (I've seen it - it's scary) don't always agree on the interpretation of certain points, this thread being a prime example.

Is there anyone here who disputes any of this? That's the impression I get from my time on the AN forums. Assuming that the AN membership is typical of the anime community as a whole, I think I'm making valid statements there.

My bold claim is that pretty much every regular poster here shares a quite similar view of the "core" of the story (i.e. the three-way power struggle between Yui, Seele and Gendo), and what we're doing here is just bickering about the less-important details of the show, most of which don't even have a final answer. Obviously we're doing that because we get some kind of kicks out of it, but we're just a geeky minority. A healthy, well-balanced individual doesn't necessarily need to understand the soul severability principle or the details about the First Ancestor Race to appreciate the show as much as any "hardcore" fan.

NOW, if Evangelion is a series that requires repeated viewings to 'get', and even those who 'get' it are quite contentious on its meaning, then there are three likely explanations:
1) The series isn't written clearly.
2) The series isn't directed clearly.
3) Anno is such a sublimely clever director that the rest of us simply can't understand his messages.

Granted, Anno's directing style can be a little... art-wankeryish at times, but I'd also like to suggest a fourth option: geeks can - and will - argue about anything.

As for those who try to explain obvious editing and continuity errors as "intentional", I'd say that's wishful thinking.

It must be pointed out that no-one here is trying to explain away all of the continuity errors in the show. I can ensure you that if some dolt actually tried that, ve'd be ruthlessly laughed at. The results of this poll should be rather self-explanatory in this respect as well.

The recent sh*tfest got started when an alternate explanation was postulated for one rather ambiguous scene that seemingly contains a blooper. Eva Monkey just somehow managed to generalize the issue, but I forgive him because his Demolition Man reference was so damn hilarious.

It's been a few years since I've seen it, but I remembered picking up on a few of them. Nothing that affected the story, just glitches. If I owned the series, I'd find a few for you. Anyone who does own the series wanna throw out a few more, here?

Sure thing, pops. My all-time personal favorite is the mind-altering transparent hill in episode 12:
Image

What makes this blooper even funnier is how the animators decided to fix the problem two episodes later when the scene in question was recapped:
Image

For reasons unknown, however, the original problem was not fixed for Renewal despite the fact how laughably easy it would have been. It is my firm belief that they simply forgot to do that because they were busy adding nipples to the Rei-clones.

So, does this restore your faith in fanboy cynicism?

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 19:41 GMT

Seele08 [ANF]
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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:15 pm

Nice avatar Doc....where-ever did you find it?

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 19:43 GMT

Leader Desslock [ANF]
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Postby Leader Desslock [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:15 pm

Dr. Nick wrote:I sure as hell didn't. But I guess it depends largely on the viewer.

I fall into the "did I really get that?" category. NGE didn't throw me nearly as much as, say, Big O, which had me screaming "WTF?!" over and over again. I think because NGE's a bit 'weirder', I was more prepared for an unusual ending. With Big O, I let myself expect something less weird than the rather sudden resolution at the end. In retrospect, I should've seen it coming, but I got into the series, so I missed it the first time through. My bad.

Dr. Nick wrote:Granted, Anno's directing style can be a little... art-wankeryish at times, but I'd also like to suggest a fourth option: geeks can - and will - argue about anything.

Oh, that's true no matter which of the above options we pick. Image

Dr. Nick wrote:Sure thing, pops. My all-time personal favorite is the mind-altering transparent hill in episode 12:

Yeah. That sort of thing. It's great stuff, thanks for the caps. I hate not being able to find a reference when i need one.

Dr. Nick wrote:So, does this restore your faith in fanboy cynicism?

Well, it restores my faith that the rabid fanboys are (as they always have been) in the distinct minority.

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 08:09 GMT

Seele08 [ANF]
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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:15 pm

I fall into the "did I really get that?" category. NGE didn't throw me nearly as much as, say, Big O, which had me screaming "WTF?!" over and over again. I think because NGE's a bit 'weirder', I was more prepared for an unusual ending. With Big O, I let myself expect something less weird than the rather sudden resolution at the end. In retrospect, I should've seen it coming, but I got into the series, so I missed it the first time through. My bad.


I can't tell you how many times I said "what the hell" after watching the end of Big O the first time. After reviewing the second season a few times I finally got it. It's my other favorite anime besides NGE.

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 08:12 GMT

The Eva Monkey [ANF]
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Postby The Eva Monkey [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:15 pm

Soluzar wrote:You've broken more rules than I've made posts.
You just love to pour gasoline on open fires, don't you?

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 08:30 GMT

Ark [ANF]
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Postby Ark [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:15 pm

Seele08 wrote:I can't tell you how many times I said "what the hell" after watching the end of Big O the first time. After reviewing the second season a few times I finally got it. It's my other favorite anime besides NGE.


Yeah it's an okay show.

It had the style of Cowboy Beebop but the character appeal of Eva.

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 08:31 GMT

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:15 pm

The Eva Monkey wrote:You just love to pour gasoline on open fires, don't you?


That's your response? You don't deny it? Then my work here is done.

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 08:46 GMT

PronsAmuro [ANF]
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Postby PronsAmuro [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:15 pm

Soluzar wrote:That's your response? You don't deny it? Then my work here is done.


My little Biscuit is becoming a man Image.

Yeah, Evangelion is flawed, I could go on and talk about why I think it's flawed, but I'm pretty sure I'll just be echoing things other people have already said.

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 08:48 GMT

Leader Desslock [ANF]
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Postby Leader Desslock [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:16 pm

On a tangental note, I really do love to pour gasoline on open fires. I'm not speaking metaphorically, either.

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 08:51 GMT

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Postby PronsAmuro [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:16 pm

Leader Desslock wrote:On a tangental note, I really do love to pour gasoline on open fires. I'm not speaking metaphorically, either.


I always thought the fire would like, climb up the gasoline stream, into the gas can, and blow up, lighting Desslock on fire, if ya did that

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 08:53 GMT

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:16 pm

Leader Desslock wrote:On a tangental note, I really do love to pour gasoline on open fires. I'm not speaking metaphorically, either.


Oh God, I knew nobody could be as rational as Dess seems to be. He's a rabid pyromaniac... I can picture it now... he must roast his enemies and eats their charred flesh, thus consuming their strength. I'd be tempted to do the same, but I do not eat any variety of formerly living flesh.

What...? Can't you hear the music? He must be evil.

PronsAmuro wrote:I always thought the fire would like, climb up the gasoline stream, into the gas can, and blow up, lighting Desslock on fire, if ya did that


That's definitely what would happen if Wile E. Coyote did it. It would kick so many varieties of *** as a cartoon too.

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 08:54 GMT

PronsAmuro [ANF]
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Postby PronsAmuro [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:16 pm

Soluzar wrote:What...? Can't you hear the music? He must be evil.


Desslock is so evil whenever he does anything "Bohemian Rhapsody" by Queen plays.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 23:10 GMT

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Postby Solid-Snake [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:16 pm

PronsAmuro wrote:Desslock is so evil whenever he does anything "Bohemian Rhapsody" by Queen plays.

Oh my. That song is playing on WinAmp right now... Wierd.

PS: Queen rox my sox.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 23:13 GMT

Ornette [ANF]
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Postby Ornette [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:16 pm

PronsAmuro wrote:I always thought the fire would like, climb up the gasoline stream, into the gas can, and blow up, lighting Desslock on fire, if ya did that

Unless there is enough oxygen in the gas can (which is unlikely), it won't combust. However, since gasoline fumes is pretty combustible, Desslock may still catch on fire.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 23:19 GMT

Leader Desslock [ANF]
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Postby Leader Desslock [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:16 pm

I haven't blown myself up yet!

Of course, I merely meant to lighten up the current argument, not derail the entire thread with thoughts of pyrotechnic glee...

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 00:12 GMT

Ornette [ANF]
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Postby Ornette [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:16 pm

Well, I suppose I should post something that is on topic.

This point was brought up before by Dr. Nick, but I'm still wildly confused about how anyone could have started with a discussion about a minute or so long scene in 24', that had multiple cuts, wasn't constrained by money or time, AND had dialogue that seemed to indicate what was going on isn't as it would appear, not being a continuity error and perhaps had some significance (the significance here is that it is not a continuity error) and that discussion being misinterpreted as "ALL the little bloopers and continuity errors throughout the entire show are not in fact simply bloopers and errors AND that they are significant". Did I miss something? I'm pretty sure I read all the posts during those few days of utter nonsense.

Speaking of utter nonsense, several times I was tempted to pull out this: Image
but decided I was better off just staying out of it and waiting for everything to blow over.

Edit: yes, the image is a joke

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 00:38 GMT

The Eva Monkey [ANF]
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Postby The Eva Monkey [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:16 pm

Ornette wrote:yes, the image is a joke
Well, that much is obvious. Image

Originally posted on: 31-Jan-2006, 01:34 GMT


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