Is Evangelion Flawed?

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Seele08 [ANF]
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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:13 pm

The Eva Monkey simply can't stand for anyone to disagree with him


Just for the record its a common problem not just on this board, but in life. Most of us on this board seem to suffer from this problem, myself included. So cut the EvaMonkey some slack.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 15:40 GMT

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:13 pm

Seele08 wrote:Just for the record its a common problem not just on this board, but in life. Most of us on this board seem to suffer from this problem, myself included. So cut the EvaMonkey some slack.


No. There comes a time to draw a line in the sand. This is not about Evangelion, this is about the basic standards of decency and respect that should be expected from anyone on a public forum.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 15:45 GMT

Seele08 [ANF]
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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:13 pm

Chocolate-Covered-Christ-on-a-Crutch you really don't like the EvaMonkey do you?

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 15:47 GMT

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:13 pm

Seele08 wrote:Chocolate-Covered-Christ-on-a-Crutch you really don't like the EvaMonkey do you?


Not a bit. Give me even so much as one reason why I should, and I promise you that I will find ten reasons to make you change your mind. The reasons relevant to this discussion are that he flames people for no readily apparent reason, he refuses to acknowledge the existance of any point-of-view other than his own, and he indulges in frequent mod-baiting. You will notice that he has attracted considerably more red ink from the moderators than anyone else. It's a mystery to me why he's still permitted to be here.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 16:00 GMT

Leader Desslock [ANF]
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Postby Leader Desslock [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:13 pm

So ANYWAY - Eva Monkey: Any response to my earlier questions?

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 16:04 GMT

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Postby Colossus [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:13 pm

I decided to vote for 'Uncertian' because for a long time after Eva first came out,i heard rumors that it was not done to its full degree by Anno,or he had to tone it down,even with Japan`s anime laws.This was before EoE was released,i still think some things were not done.Dispite the fact that Eva is legendary.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 16:08 GMT

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Postby The Eva Monkey [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:14 pm

Leader Desslock wrote:So ANYWAY - Eva Monkey: Any response to my earlier questions?
In the previous discussion, it seemed to me that Rachel was advocating that the things that we consider "flaws" are in fact very deliberate. I personally feel that Rachel gives Anno TOO much credit. Yes, Anno is very creative, and Eva is amazing, but she seems to think it makes as much functional sense to the point where it is flawless and perfect. While I may have misinterpretted her views, it still sparked a curiosity in myself. I was curious to know if there were people out there who actually thought that Evangelion is without flaw.

To Soluzar:

I'm not trying to prove anything here, and I could care less whether someone disagrees with me. Stop flaming me and making me out to be something I'm not. You accuse me of trolling, but then you come in here and do the exact same thing. If you want me to follow an example, try setting one for a change. You want me to "behave"? Stop baiting me with this juvenile crap.

And thanks for ruining the thread. We needed something productive to interrupt the current argument. It just goes to show that we really are just a bunch of jerks that enjoy waving our pricks at each other.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 16:21 GMT

Seele08 [ANF]
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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:14 pm

And thanks for ruining the thread. We needed something productive to interrupt the current argument. It just goes to show that we really are just a bunch of jerks that enjoy waving our pricks at each other.


I guess I'll just have to settle for occasionally pulling up my shirt and flashing.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 16:23 GMT

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:14 pm

The Eva Monkey wrote:I'm not trying to prove anything here, and I could care less whether someone disagrees with me. Stop flaming me and making me out to be something I'm not. You accuse me of trolling, but then you come in here and do the exact same thing. If you want me to follow an example, try setting one for a change. You want me to "behave"? Stop baiting me with this juvenile crap.

I'll stop what I'm doing when you stop what you are doing, and not before. You calling me juvenile does not even begin to penetrate my thick skin, any more than anything else you could ever say. Much to your chagrin, I imagine.

And thanks for ruining the thread. We needed something productive to interrupt the current argument. It just goes to show that we really are just a bunch of jerks that enjoy waving our pricks at each other.

The thread was ruined as soon as you posted it. With regards to "something productive" - it's an anime. If you want to do something productive, you backed the wrong horse, pal. With regards to "us" being a bunch of jerks, I must say that as long as you include yourself in that definition, I can be satisfied.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 16:31 GMT

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Postby Leader Desslock [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:14 pm

The Eva Monkey wrote:I...Stop flaming me and making me out to be something I'm not.

Ex-[expletive deleted]-cuse me?! I wasn't flaming anyone. I was trying to figure out what you were on about. Genuinely, as I pointed out using that word twice.

The Eva Monkey wrote:You accuse me of trolling, but then you come in here and do the exact same thing.

I believe I phrased that in terms of "my initial impression was...", then invited you to explain what your true purpose was. By indicating that you had a higher motive, that means I was saying that you WEREN'T trolling.

The Eva Monkey wrote:If you want me to follow an example, try setting one for a change. You want me to "behave"? Stop baiting me with this juvenile crap.

What kind of splintered log did someone shove up your [expletive to which Tama83 objects on Toonami] this morning, Poindexter? At what point have I ever expressed interest in what kind of example you're setting? At what point have I ever cared whether you "behave"?

I mean, okay, thanks for explaining what spurned your interest in a topic that I'd have thought you'd already have mastered, given your signature. That's all I wanted to know. Now could you kindly refrain from breaking the rules YOU set in the first post and cut the personal attacks? Geez. Get over yourself.

This is a great example of why, even though I'd love to discuss Evangelion, I generally avoid posting on this subforum like the plague.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 16:43 GMT

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:14 pm

Leader Desslock wrote:What kind of splintered log did someone shove up your [expletive to which Tama83 objects on Toonami] this morning, Poindexter? At what point have I ever expressed interest in what kind of example you're setting? At what point have I ever cared whether you "behave"?

I mean, okay, thanks for explaining what spurred your interest in a topic that I'd have thought you'd already have mastered, given your signature. That's all I wanted to know. Now could you kindly refrain from breaking the rules YOU set in the first post and cut the personal attacks? Geez. Get over yourself.


Dess, I believe that The EvaMonkey's words were aimed at me. I'm under the impression that he responded to both your post and mine at the same time. He'd have no reason to speak to you in that manner, and his accusations seem to be directed at me. For what little I may care.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 16:46 GMT

Leader Desslock [ANF]
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Postby Leader Desslock [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:14 pm

^ I got that too, but he quoted me then said, "You". Which I felt free to interpret as either ME (in the singular) or US (the rest of the forum, if he meant plural). Either way, I felt the need to respond.

Tricky things, pronouns. Image

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 16:50 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:14 pm

Nobody likes to listen to poor ol' Smokey.

:goes off to assemble L^2 Bomb:

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 16:52 GMT

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:14 pm

Leader Desslock wrote:^ I got that too, but he quoted me then said, "You". Which I felt free to interpret as either ME (in the singular) or US (the rest of the forum, if he meant plural). Either way, I felt the need to respond.

Tricky things, pronouns. Image


Yeah... I can see how the misunderstanding arose. He and I have a certain degree of history, though. Despite his pulling the innocent act, I know him from of old. He knows this, and he doesn't like it.

For the record, I'm not proud of the way that I've responded in this thread. God knows I deserve to be slapped down as hard, if not harder than The Eva Monkey. I just find it hard to ignore blatant intellectual dishonest, and even harder to ignore the kind of tactics he will use without hesitation to defend his position.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 16:54 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:14 pm

Hey Biscuit, how about you go work on something constructive that will serve the Greater Good of All Humanity, like that #*%&@*^% FORUM?

Don't make Shinji stick his head into a bucket of water again. You know he'll do it.

Image

And look! Chibi-Rei is throwing a fit already!

Image

And Asuka is flabbergasted!

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Zeruel doesn't have any comment at all.

Image

Aw, poo, I've run out.

Well, hopefully you get the idea. ONEGAI!!!!

Image

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 17:00 GMT

Seele08 [ANF]
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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:14 pm

Well here's this...

Image
The commitee orders you to work on that "project", it may be the only real hope for Reichu's sanity.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 17:04 GMT

Leader Desslock [ANF]
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Postby Leader Desslock [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:14 pm

* slaps Soluzar *
Feel better?

Okay, so let's just reduce this to common sense and not get hung up on little liggling details that can only be seen on your twelfth frame-by-frame viewing of Evangelion.

Question For Anyone: Do most people understand the basic meaning of Evangelion after their first viewing?

My answer to that would be Not Really. Lots of people have a Big-O-esque "WTF?!" reaction at the end of NGE, according to posts on this forum. Other folks that think they get it don't feel really confident in their interpretation and vow a second viewing might be necessary. The overall percentage of people who see Evangelion and think, "Wow. That was spot on. I totally get that." is a minority of the total audience. And it's quite common to hear EVA fans (particularly the hardcore fanboys) tell those not in the illuminati that they need to watch Evangelion again, this time paying attention, in order to understand it.

That's how new folks see Evangelion. But what about the hardcore fans? Well, even those who've seen Evangelion until their eyes turn red and their hair turns white (I've seen it - it's scary) don't always agree on the interpretation of certain points, this thread being a prime example.

Is there anyone here who disputes any of this? That's the impression I get from my time on the AN forums. Assuming that the AN membership is typical of the anime community as a whole, I think I'm making valid statements there.

NOW, if Evangelion is a series that requires repeated viewings to 'get', and even those who 'get' it are quite contentious on its meaning, then there are three likely explanations:
1) The series isn't written clearly.
2) The series isn't directed clearly.
3) Anno is such a sublimely clever director that the rest of us simply can't understand his messages.

Of these three explanations, guess which one I personally rule out with Occam's razor? I really don't see any reason to believe that Anno's that intelligent a person, nor that good a director. So that leaves 1 & 2, which means that Evangelion is, by reasonable definition, flawed. Doesn't mean it's bad, and it doesn't mean it's not worthy of respect - just that it's no more perfect than anything else.

Which should be common sense, I'd think. Maybe I'm wrong.

As for those who try to explain obvious editing and continuity errors as "intentional", I'd say that's wishful thinking. There's nothing wrong with wishful thinking, and they're certainly entitled to do it. But it's hard to take that kind of critical analysis seriously, so other than academic and amusement value, I'm not sure why the rest of us would care. I mean, there are glitches in Yamato where people are standing halfway through a console. I love the series, and I think Leiji's the man, but I don't think it ruins his reputation nor do I think it dilutes the enjoyment or message of the series to say that was an editing error. I have no idea why the wishful thinkers within the hardcore Evangelion fanbase would find this kind of common sense distasteful.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 17:16 GMT

Ark [ANF]
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Postby Ark [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:14 pm

What are the continuety errors?

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 18:07 GMT

The Eva Monkey [ANF]
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Postby The Eva Monkey [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:14 pm

Leader Desslock wrote:Ex-[expletive deleted]-cuse me?!
Relax man, none of that was directed at you. You're fine in my book.

Soluzar wrote:I'll stop what I'm doing when you stop what you are doing, and not before.
That is by far the most immature thing I have heard in my time at this forum. Flaming someone to get them to stop flaming? Honestly Richard, you have enough smarts in that head of yours to realize how incredibly hypocritical and unproductive that is. You want others to improve their behavior? You should really rethink your approach.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 18:22 GMT

Soluzar [ANF]
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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:15 pm

The Eva Monkey wrote:That is by far the most immature thing I have heard in my time at this forum. Flaming someone to get them to stop flaming? Honestly Richard, you have enough smarts in that head of yours to realize how incredibly hypocritical and unproductive that is. You want others to improve their behavior? You should really rethink your approach.

What approach would you suggest, Aaron? With respect, you and I have a well-documented history, and I can gladly bring it up if you want people to know what you are capable of... Is that an approach that would suit you better?

Until such time as you acknowledge that other views than your own are valid, then that is about all I can think of. Why you have yet to be banned is utterly beyond me. You've broken more rules than I've made posts.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 18:30 GMT


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