Is Evangelion Flawed?

Over time, notable threads from ANF will be preserved here for the Benefit of All.

Moderators: Ornette, Monk Ed

Malchiel [ANF]
Embryo
Posts: 2
Joined: Jan 28, 2009

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Malchiel [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:10 pm

Yes to a fault... duh

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 10:10 GMT

Soluzar [ANF]
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Posts: 618
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:10 pm

Just because it has flaws doesn't mean that people who want to shouldn't create theories about the show as though it were entirely consistent. Dude, this entire thread and poll is basically you trolling because you don't like the way other people think.

For shame.

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 10:17 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Posts: 3651
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:10 pm

Dr. Nick wrote:Not to mention Gendo's insta-clean clothes and his office that remains undamaged even when it's destroyed. Gendo is clearly a magical schoolgirl.


While I'm not going to touch the latter part (that's for "Go Hikari!"), they DO correct his clothes for Renewal.

Image

Image

So you don't need for rip off your shirt for that one any-more! Image

Damn, the "Awakening" scene just got a whole lot sexier. Image

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 10:20 GMT

OMF [ANF]
Clockiel
Clockiel
User avatar
Posts: 428
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby OMF [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:10 pm

Is Evangelion flawed? Yes.

Is it fatally flawed? Hopefully not.

Evangelion of course contains bloopers, continuity errors, etc, etc. But do these actually defy our attempts to explain what's going on, or make a mockery of the concept of a consistent and cohensive storyline? I would say no.

Neon Genesis Evangelion is Hideki Anno's lucid dream. A constructed dreamscape in which he says what he has to say on the human condition before leaving us to make up our own minds. And like a dream, things often do not make complete sense here, and concepts are only half explained of vaugely constructed. But a dream can often make complete sense, even if one cannot exactly define exactly what was in it.

I think Evangelion is a lot like this. The director had an idea, or rather, an impression of the backstory and concepts in the show. Rather than spelling them out explicitly, he said nothing about certain things directly, but nonetheless based concepts and events in the show upon them.

The classic example. The Angels. It is never explained what they really are or where they come from, but nontheless everyone at Nerv appears to be so intimately aquaited with the angels that they do not even discuss their motivation and/or origins. Everyone has seemingly been through a briefing. Everyone but the audience that is. The angels are a well formed concept on which the dream is based, but it is never explained what they are in the dream.

Another example. Asuka's feelings for Shinji, perhaps. They are never directly stated, but are nonetheless built upon extensively.

I suppose I may have lost people here. Think of a dream where you are being chased by something. In the dream, you may be aware of its motivation, where you have to go for safety, how far it is behind you, but you may not know what exactly is behind you, even though you seem to know everythig about it.

Anyway, we are all here, largely in part because we want Evangelion "To make sense". We want to explain the dream, in all its facits. We want to uncover the unsaid truths that exists in the dream, by prying at what is hinted at.

I think the main point of this thread, is to question whether or not this is possible. Did Evangelion change too much in its transition from thought to substance. Was it ever meant to make sense to begin with? I would say it was meant to largely make sense, especially with regard to the characters and to a lesser degree the plot. I still think it's possible to fit some hind of explaination around this wandering story. Something that still ties it all in together.

We all do this mostly for fun, and for understanding. I would hope that everyone realises by now that there are no absolute answers in Evangelion. Everyone must find their own answers. So don't just blindly accept anything. Evangelion has to be considered deeply before any decision can be made. And that goes for the backplot as well as the characters and their relationships too.

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 10:36 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Posts: 3651
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:10 pm

"Is it flawed"? What kind of question is this? Of course it is. Anything produced by the human creature is inherently flawed, because we ourselves are inherently flawed. This seems like a tacit fact of life to me. Is it really not so obvious to people? Perfection is an illusion, so never expect it; flaws are a given, so expect they will be there. It's no big deal.

Is there any actual point to this poll? Not from any level of practicality or respect that I can see. "It's just repeating the obvious again and again."

OMF wrote:I think the main point of this thread, is to question whether or not this is possible. Did Evangelion change too much in its transition from thought to substance. Was it ever meant to make sense to begin with?


:nods vehemently:

I would say it was meant to largely make sense, especially with regard to the characters and to a lesser degree the plot.


I disagree with you about the "plot" part. A lot.

We all do this mostly for fun, and for understanding. I would hope that everyone realises by now that there are no absolute answers in Evangelion. Everyone must find their own answers.


I think that quotation needs to be looked at again. Anno might have been saying, "Everyone needs to find the answers on their own." But I'd need to get ahold of the original Japanese. Damned straight I will.

I disagree about a lack of absolute answers, too.

So don't just blindly accept anything. Evangelion has to be considered deeply before any decision can be made. And that goes for the backplot as well as the characters and their relationships too.


This is absolutely true, however.

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 13:06 GMT

Crawlspace [ANF]
Embryo
Posts: 1
Joined: Jan 28, 2009

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Crawlspace [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:10 pm

Every creative work has flaws, whether they're minor or massive. Even things considered exceptional. Eva is no different in that regard.

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 13:21 GMT

Levon [ANF]
Adam
User avatar
Posts: 52
Joined: Oct 20, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Levon [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:10 pm

Does the dub count?Image

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 13:26 GMT

Mr. Tines [ANF]
Bardiel
Bardiel
User avatar
Posts: 787
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:10 pm

Levon wrote:Does the dub count?Image


Much pwnage there!

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 14:24 GMT

Seele08 [ANF]
Matarael
Matarael
User avatar
Posts: 568
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:11 pm

Levon wrote:Does the dub count?Image


And how 'bout the commentary tracks that come with the movie and the platinum? AWL knows all.

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 14:28 GMT

The Eva Monkey [ANF]
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 128
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby The Eva Monkey [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:11 pm

Soluzar wrote:Just because it has flaws doesn't mean that people who want to shouldn't create theories about the show as though it were entirely consistent. Dude, this entire thread and poll is basically you trolling because you don't like the way other people think.

For shame.
Dude, go away. It's an honest question that I want to know the answer to. It's over, don't stir it back up again.

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 17:12 GMT

Malchiel [ANF]
Embryo
Posts: 2
Joined: Jan 28, 2009

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Malchiel [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:11 pm

The Eva Monkey wrote:Dude, go away. It's an honest question that I want to know the answer to. It's over, don't stir it back up again.


Haha, you can't tell an Eva fanboy that Eva is flawed =P

That's just a big no no

look here

Sadly true Image

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 17:35 GMT

AsukaxSohryux [ANF]
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 106
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AsukaxSohryux [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:11 pm

The Eva Monkey wrote:Dude, go away. It's an honest question that I want to know the answer to. It's over, don't stir it back up again.


He speaks the truth. There is no way this thread is a "trolling" thread. He asked a simple question, and he wants a simple answer.

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 17:38 GMT

tv33 [ANF]
Ramiel
Ramiel
User avatar
Posts: 324
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby tv33 [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:11 pm

Malchiel wrote:Haha, you can't tell an Eva fanboy that Eva is flawed =P

That's just a big no no


Did you even look at the poll? Image

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 17:56 GMT

Joeshie [ANF]
Adam
User avatar
Posts: 95
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Joeshie [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:11 pm

Malchiel wrote:Haha, you can't tell an Eva fanboy that Eva is flawed =P

That's just a big no no

look here

Sadly true Image


It's rather funny that you would actually come out and ridicule Evangelion fanboys for their fanatic devotion to Evangelion. While they can see no bad in Evangelion, you are on the exact opposite spectrum. You refuse to see any good traits of Evangelion no matter what anyone else says. You are just as ignorant and foolish as the Evangelion fanboys because you let your fanatical hatred of Evangelion blind you from what good points it does have. And I assure you that an anime as popular as Evangelion HAS to have some sort of good points availible.

Of course, you are one of AnimeNation's most persistant trolls, so I wouldn't expect anything less of you.

On that note, let me take this time to state that flaws of this nature are completely subjective. What one person finds to be a flaw in the production may turn to out be a move of pure genius for another person. There is no universal laws that tell us if a literary technique (or lack thereof) in an artistic medium actually adds or subtracts from the overall preformance. As Evangelion in particular has shown us, a work of genius to some is just a piece of trash to others.

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 21:25 GMT

Van [ANF]
Embryo
Posts: 31
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Van [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:11 pm

Everything is flawed, nothing is perfect.

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 21:41 GMT

Fuzzy Chickens [ANF]
Shamshel
Shamshel
User avatar
Posts: 289
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Fuzzy Chickens [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:11 pm

Episodes 7-14 are all flaws.

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 23:29 GMT

AsukaxSohryux [ANF]
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 106
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AsukaxSohryux [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:11 pm

Fuzzy Chickens wrote:Episodes 7-14 are all flaws.


Now why would you say that. They had flaws in them but the episodes alone weren't flaws.

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 23:36 GMT

Ark [ANF]
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 102
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ark [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:11 pm

Fuzzy Chickens wrote:Episodes 7-14 are all flaws.


You say that but would the proceeding episodes have been as emotionally stimulating if 7-14 (or in my opinion 7-11) hadn't been as lighthearted as they were for the most part.

If you look at it this way then maybe what you see as a flaw is really a strength.

This is why I think the question is meaningless.

Originally posted on: 29-Jan-2006, 23:41 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Posts: 3651
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:11 pm

Last I checked, episodes #07 through #11 were all integral to the plot.

Shiro Tokita and his baby JA exist, if nothing more, for Crossover Madness.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 00:07 GMT

Ark [ANF]
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 102
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ark [ANF] » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:11 pm

Reichu wrote:Last I checked, episodes #07 through #11 were all integral to the plot.

Shiro Tokita and his baby JA exist, if nothing more, for Crossover Madness.


I think what fuzzy meant was that the episodes didn't explicitly appear to have the same depth as the episodes before and after.

I'd disagree but if you want an anime that's depressing all the way through then I suppose you could see it as a flaw.

Originally posted on: 30-Jan-2006, 00:15 GMT


Return to “AnimeNation Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest