Poor Dr. Katsuragi

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mr.k [ANF]
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Postby mr.k [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:05 am

What went wrong in 2I. What they are tried to accomplish.

Was he a brillant scientist or sacrificial ramor both.

He was experimenting on Adam about Super Solenoid Theory.

As I remember S2 engine is a unlimited power supply.

Adam, of course, was a first angel. And what an angel supposed to possese in

NGE. Tree/fruit of life.

And fruit of life = ever lasting life.

I don't know if S2 engine = fruit of life

But I belive at least it is derivitive of it.

There are very interesting conversations take place between Keel and

Gendou in 2I.

Keel " Scientists-----They put too much faith in their own ideas."

Gendou " Is it self - righteousness?"

and you know the rest of the conversation.

What are they talking about and who are they talking about.

Off course they are talking about Dr. akira Image katsuragi.

Why are they bad mouthing Dr. katsuragi.

He is a probably brillant scientist in his field and know his staffs.

He has all the dogma about his mathmatical equation and computational model

and such.

But one equation he absolutly should have known is this

The fruits of knowledge + the fruits of life = A God.

He know mathmatics, physics, chemistry, histry ,and probably geography too.

One thing he fail to understand is the theology, I repeat the theology

theology theology theology theology theology theology theology.

Seele and Gendou knew what is going to happen so they left the place day

before and poor Dr. Katsuragi became a sacrificial rum.

Dr.Katsuragi literaly created a God. How can you control a God. you can't.

But he did some thing usefull beside saving his doughter, namely the termal

damping treatment which I don't have time today. So may be next time.

Bye

Originally posted on: 05.19.2006, 08:17 AM

Ornette [ANF]
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Postby Ornette [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:05 am

mr.k wrote:Dr.Katsuragi literaly created a God.

are you saying Adam has the fruit of knowledge? I suppose that's possible... but Adam was blown to bits at 2I. Hmm, this brings up another question, what does having the fruit of knowledge give you if you don't have a soul? For example, the sample of Adam that Gendo had in his hand, what good does having the fruit of knowledge if you're just a lump of flesh?

Originally posted on: 05.19.2006, 09:35 AM

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:05 am

mr.k wrote:I don't know if S2 engine = fruit of life
But I belive at least it is derivitive of it.


Yes, there is definitely a connection. One interesting thing: Yui (or EVA-01, if you prefer Image ) obtains a S2 from Zeruel in #19, but she isn't said to have the Fruit of Life proper until #26' -- which isn't really explained, nor has anyone (to my knowledge) tried to explain it. (But I have ideas...)

There are very interesting conversations take place between Keel and
Gendou in 2I. ... What are they talking about and who are they talking about. Off course they are talking about Dr. akira Image katsuragi.


Yay, so someone agrees with me on this? Image I've ranted about this in the past, and there are some comments from me here. (Does that sound right to you?)

Keel is really the one doing the bad-mouthing here. Gendo's just playing along -- see here.

Why are they bad mouthing Dr. katsuragi.


I have some ideas about the Keel part, but most people don't believe them. :nervous laugh:

But one equation he absolutly should have known is this

The fruits of knowledge + the fruits of life = A God.


I think he actually might have, too...

One thing he fail to understand is the theology, I repeat the theology...


But I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Seele and Gendou knew what is going to happen so they left the place day before and poor Dr. Katsuragi became a sacrificial rum.


The "Seele" part is interesting, since we learn as early as episode #02 that they consider the Second Impact that happened to be a huge catastrophe.
Episode #02

Committeeman A "So the Angels have returned? It's so sudden."
B "It's the same as it was fifteen years ago. A disaster comes as it will, without warning."
C "We could say it was fortunate, in the sense that our prior investments were not a waste."
D "You can't be sure about that yet. If it doesn't pay off, it's a waste all the same."
It doesn't seem that they'd have any reason to lie amongst themselves at a board meeting. And they speak of the Angels' return as being "fortunate", and of "prior investments" that have yet to deliver the full "pay off".

There are some other "funny things" going on, as well. I'm having my doubts these days that Keel, at least, was expecting the Contact Experiment results that Dr. K and his team provided.

Gendo? He might be another story.

Originally posted on: 05.19.2006, 10:12 AM

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Postby mr.k [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:05 am

No, Adam does not have the fruit of knowledge. Adam has the fruit of life.

But in 2I, Dr.katsuragi dive human DNA(the fruit of the knowledge) into

Adam's core.

Hence, the fruit of life + the fruit of knowledge = God.

So they made an angel into God.

Tv23, Ritsuko " Man found God. That was 15 years ago."

They actually found first angel Adam, now they call him/her God.

That is a tell tell sign.

About infused Adam. The infused Adam doesn't have a soul but Gendou has one.

Infused Adam probably is copy/clone one so it doesn't have a soul.

That is the concept of the room of Gulf.

When you are concieved naturally, the room of Gulf open and a soul comes

out and attach in the futes, and when you die it's goes back to the room

of Gulf.

If you copy/clone yourself, it does not open so it is just body parts.

Even Eva is same thing. Evas are copy of both Adam and Lilith, so you have

to do soul implant/ partial soul implant / character implant / dammy plg.

Originally posted on: 05.19.2006, 10:26 AM

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:06 am

mr.k wrote:But in 2I, Dr.katsuragi dive human DNA(the fruit of the knowledge) into Adam's core. Hence, the fruit of life + the fruit of knowledge = God.


The actual "Fruits" seem to be spiritual components, rather than physical ones. The Super Solenoid Engine can only be produced by those with the Fruit of Life, but, unless I'm mistaken, eating someone's S2 won't give you the FoL. If 'human DNA' does indeed represent the Fruit of Knowledge, then I don't think putting it into someone with the Fruit of Life would give them the FoK.

So they made an angel into God.
Tv23, Ritsuko " Man found God. That was 15 years ago."
They actually found first angel Adam, now they call him/her God.
That is a tell tell sign.


"God" (kami-sama) is just what they called Adam from the beginning, from what I can tell. Ritsuko: "Hito wa kami-sama o hirotta node yorokonde te ni ireyou to shita" -- literally, "Being that people found a god, they became delighted and tried to take her in hand [make her theirs]". Adam was already a "god" when she was found.

About infused Adam. The infused Adam doesn't have a soul but Gendou has one. Infused Adam probably is copy/clone one so it doesn't have a soul.


Sample A-01 was probably regrown from the egg that Adam was "reduced" to as a result of Second Impact. Not the original, in any case. And we know it doesn't have a soul anyway, since Adam's soul is in Kaworu.

That is the concept of the room of Gulf. When you are concieved naturally, the room of Gulf open and a soul comes out and attach in the futes, and when you die it's goes back to the room of Gulf.

If you copy/clone yourself, it does not open so it is just body parts.
Even Eva is same thing. Evas are copy of both Adam and Lilith, so you have to do soul implant/ partial soul implant / character implant / dammy plg.


Regarding Evas and the Guf stuff, I had some thoughts about that here (scroll down towards the pictures Image ).

Don't forget my Post #3, either! Image

Originally posted on: 05.19.2006, 08:37 PM

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Postby mr.k [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:06 am

Keel is really the one doing the bad-mouthing here. Gendo's just playing along.


I absolutly agree with you.

In Bible and in NGE(in my opinion)

The fruit of knowledge/ science / technology is a sin (an original sin)

And we wonder why Keel belittles science/ scientist.

About the theology stuff.

I believe the religion is big part of the show no matter what people say.

Originally posted on: 05.20.2006, 05:24 AM

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:06 am

^Religious reverence of SOME sort is a big part of Keel's convictions, but he's full of contridictions when trying to acheve Seele's goal of making humanity into a perfect being(as for other lilim...not so sure.)...using....(Eva)science.
Otherwise, the religous symbols are all for nice effects. I rather like all of these relgious influenced names for different componets of the NGE uinverse, makes it sound more interesting.

Originally posted on: 05.20.2006, 12:01 PM

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Postby mr.k [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:06 am

Adam was already a"god" when she was found


I disagree on this one.
One of the sample they took from Adam became the fetus Adam which
ended up in Gendo's right hand.
So you are saying what Gendo has in right hand is a God himself.
By infusing Adam in his right hand, Gendo achieved a divinity.
So why he bother with the instrumentality then?

This is one of so called a puzzle Anno talk about.
By calling Adam/angel a God, we are supposed to figure out
FoL(angel) + FoK(human) took place in 2I.

Originally posted on: 05.20.2006, 10:47 PM

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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:06 am

mr.k wrote:I believe the religion is big part of the show no matter what people say.


Even the people who made it? Best of luck with that. If you aren't willing to let go of that assumption, then you're going to find that you can produce a coherent way of looking at things, but only by ignoring the evidence.

Part of looking at something from an academic perspective is knowing when you need to let go of your cherished notions because they aren't in line with what you have learned. However, your path is your own, and you have freedom to walk it as you will.

Originally posted on: 05.20.2006, 10:56 PM

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:06 am

mr.k wrote:I disagree on this one.


The way they use the term in #23 seems to make it pretty clear that "god" is Adam's default state, not something that humans supposedly made her into.
"Hito wa kamisama o hirotta node yorokonde te ni ireyou to shita." -- "People found a god and, in their joy, tried to make her theirs.""Sekkaku hirotta kamisama mo kiete shimatta wa. Demo kondo wa kamisama o jibun-tachi de fukkatsu saseyou to shita no. Sore ga ADAMU." -- "The god they had gone to such lengths to find also vanished completely. But then they tried to revive the god on their own. That (god) was Adam.""Soshite ADAMU kara kamisama ni nisete ningen o tsukutta. Sore ga EVA." -- "And, from Adam, humans were created in the image of [the] god. Those were the Evas."
Fuyutsuki echoes the last part in #26': "Humanity creates Eva in the likeness of a god�" ("Hito ga kami ni nisete Eva o tsukuru...")

Whatever exactly kami denotes in NGE, it seems a lot vaguer than "Both Fruits = God". Check out the thread on the NGE2 Classified Information if you don't believe me. Image

One of the sample they took from Adam became the fetus Adam which
ended up in Gendo's right hand.
So you are saying what Gendo has in right hand is a God himself.
By infusing Adam in his right hand, Gendo achieved a divinity.
So why he bother with the instrumentality then?


Fusing Adam's embryo into his right hand and salvaging her soul back into it isn't quite the same as gathering all human souls together, complementing them with the Fruit of Life, and evolving everybody into something better.

This is one of so called a puzzle Anno talk about.
By calling Adam/angel a God, we are supposed to figure out
FoL(angel) + FoK(human) took place in 2I.


I honestly think you're chasing a red herring here.

Soluzar wrote:Even the people who made it? Best of luck with that. If you aren't willing to let go of that assumption, then you're going to find that you can produce a coherent way of looking at things, but only by ignoring the evidence.


You do realize that a radical religious cult called Seele is a big part of the show, right?

Originally posted on: 05.20.2006, 11:44 PM

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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:06 am

Reichu wrote:You do realize that a radical religious cult called Seele is a big part of the show, right?


Yeah, a fictious cult. Real world religions have nothing to do with anything. Our friend here is trying to find leads in the Bible. You can't get anwhere that way.

Originally posted on: 05.21.2006, 12:33 AM

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Postby mr.k [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:06 am

I read somewhere(in Japanese web) that in NGE script, Seele supposed to be
the desendence of Essenes who wrote Dead Sea Scrolls.

Originally posted on: 05.21.2006, 01:51 AM

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:06 am

They might be referring to this (see my last comment).

(And, dear gawd, are my sentiments in those pages getting dated or what... I better hurry up.)

Originally posted on: 05.21.2006, 01:54 AM

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Postby mr.k [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:06 am

About the Secret Dead Sea Scrolls of Seele,I have heard in reality that most
jucy part of Dead Sea Scrolls is kept out from public and only very few has
access to it. I wonder why and what is in it. May be how the world ends and
when it ends. My imagination grow.

Originally posted on: 05.21.2006, 03:20 AM

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Postby Ornette [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:06 am

mr.k wrote:About the Secret Dead Sea Scrolls of Seele,I have heard in reality that most
jucy part of Dead Sea Scrolls is kept out from public and only very few has
access to it. I wonder why and what is in it. May be how the world ends and
when it ends. My imagination grow.

AFAIK, the majority of the scrolls are just biblical texts, many of which are fragments from the Hebrew Bible. There's about 90 or so scrolls that either haven't been identified or haven't been released to the public by the Vatican. The reason the Vatican is holding onto these? Who knows. Could be anything from them not finished translating them (the scrolls were in 2 different dialects of Hebrew) to the scrolls containing stuff that contradicts the modern teachings of Christianity or unwelcome early history of Christianity (maybe says bad stuff about Jesus?).

Originally posted on: 05.21.2006, 04:55 AM

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Postby Treize X [ANF] » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:07 am

Ornette wrote:AFAIK, the majority of the scrolls are just biblical texts, many of which are fragments from the Hebrew Bible. There's about 90 or so scrolls that either haven't been identified or haven't been released to the public by the Vatican. The reason the Vatican is holding onto these? Who knows. Could be anything from them not finished translating them (the scrolls were in 2 different dialects of Hebrew) to the scrolls containing stuff that contradicts the modern teachings of Christianity or unwelcome early history of Christianity (maybe says bad stuff about Jesus?).


Most likely the former, but you never know - the Jews at Qumran were exiled there, after all.


Originally posted on: 05.21.2006, 09:33 AM


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