RahXephon

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Postby Dave » Thu Jul 08, 2004 1:55 pm

Ra Ra? It's not a ripoff! RahXephon is beautiful in it's own right, and just because it follows the same "Monster of the week" theme doesn't mean it is a copy of Eva. I can't see any similiarity between any of the characters in RahXephon and Eva. And the Xephon is totally different from unit 01. Where exactly is the ripoff? (Sorry if I sound a bit mean but I reaaally like this show.)
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Postby utero2001 » Fri Jul 09, 2004 11:21 am

Where exactly is the ripoff? (Sorry if I sound a bit mean but I reaaally like this show.)


hehe, glad you like it.

Let's see...You've got the young, teenage pilot Ayato and the older military woman having the hots for him in Haruka. Does that sound familiar? That is to say, Shinji and Misato? Ritsuko in Eva is now Sayoko in Rahxephon. What else? In Eva you had Seele pulling the strings, here it's the Barbem Foundation. Just erase the word "Angel" from Eva's scripts, pencil in "Dolem" and you're good to go. Oh yes, and how could I POSSIBLY have forgotten the Rei clone here? Rahxephon's even has its own version of the otherworldly, not-quite-right-in-the-head girl by the name of Kuon. Thing is though that Rei is an interesting character, Kuon joins the rest of the bland looking cast on the production line. Hell, in the first episode they also steal part of Nerv's slogan for crying out loud! But with apologies to Mr. Browning, instead of "God's in his heaven, all's right with the world", it's now just "All's right with the world".

The art is mediocre, and for a series that relies a great deal on musical themes there's very little to recommend it audially. Compare it to music by Yoko Kano (spelling), whose done some of the best anime music like cowboy bebop and ghost in the shell SAC. But the thing that sticks in my craw is the almost carbon copy cribbing from Evangelion. Trust me, you'll be able to basically recognize everyone from Eva in Rahxephon. That, plus the fact that the non-Eva writing is about as straightforward as a maze makes for a frustrating viewing experience at times. For myself, all the romantic subplots going on adds to it for me, and really they don't blosom at all.

If you really, really, really liked Eva and just can't get enough, watch this series. But even for an Eva freak like me, Rahxephon just can't compare. It simply cannot match the depth of feeling and originality of that earlier series. For non-Eva freaks, Rahxephon is at best mildly entertaining and they could actually consider the Bronze I give it generous.

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Postby Dave » Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:16 pm

http://www.evamonkey.com/writings_shea04.php

And how in the world can you possibly say the art is bad? My god the art for that show is beautiful, especially the Mecha's. All the characters are drawn with amazing detail (and realism if I might add) and they blend CG into the action scenes so seamlessly I didn't even realize that had used a computer until like the third viewing. I agree with you partly on the music part; considering the role music plays in the show it could have been much better. However I still feel the music was quite good and nothing to complain over. Lastly, it's not my insane love for Eva that makes me like RahXephon. I have quite a few friends who love RahXephon but despise Eva (and yes I made them watch it).
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Postby utero2001 » Fri Jul 09, 2004 1:59 pm

And how in the world can you possibly say the art is bad?


The character designs are a little lacking. They don't have a lot of fine detail, and the facial features have a tendency to look a little flat. As in table flat. Not "flat" like "boring".
It does have its own style in a way, and use of a computer to colour scences makes it look really clean.

I was given the first DVD by someone from my uni's anime society. Me and my housemates watched the first few episodes and I was interested in it.
A friend managed to get me a fansubbed version of the series, I really tried to get into it, but as it reminded me of EVA too much, it just pissed me off a little. I think what its down to is that I've watched soo much anime of the last year (several episodes a day), and I realised how many animes suck (not including RahXephon), so I think unless an anime is amazing, then I won't really appreciate it.

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Postby Dave » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:01 pm

You should really give RahXephon another chance. If you do, watch the dubbed version. I'm willing to bet that the RahXephon dubbed version is actually better than the subbed version (even IF you speak Japanese).
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Postby utero2001 » Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:51 pm

I'm willing to bet that the RahXephon dubbed version is actually better than the subbed version


this may sound harsh, but I don't like american voices talking over Japanese cartoons.

I might give it another go though, my friends got me two whole series of gundam to try, so loadsa mecha to come :wink:

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Postby Quiddity » Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:59 pm

Let's see...You've got the young, teenage pilot Ayato


Gee, only THE BIGGEST CLICHE IN MECHA HISTORY.

and the older military woman having the hots for him in Haruka. Does that sound familiar? That is to say, Shinji and Misato?


No, because Misato and Shinji's relationship wasn't on the level of Haruka and Ayato's at all. Haruka and Ayato were truly in love, since they were teenagers. Misato's attitude towards Shinji is mostly out of feeling sorry for him or to motivate him. Kaji is the one she's in love with.

Ritsuko in Eva is now Sayoko in Rahxephon.


Psychotic intellectual, yes I'd agree they are similar. But Eva took this from Ideon, made 15 years earlier.

What else? In Eva you had Seele pulling the strings, here it's the Barbem Foundation.


Yes, mysterious groups in the background. A mega cliche just like teenage pilots. Eva didn't invent this.

Just erase the word "Angel" from Eva's scripts, pencil in "Dolem" and you're good to go.


And just erase the word Angel from Eva and replace it was any standard monster from the cliche monster of the week shows and its the same thing. That someone can think that Eva invented the monster of the week style is so absurd I'm about to puke. It shows complete ignorance, or distain towards so many mecha classics.

Oh yes, and how could I POSSIBLY have forgotten the Rei clone here? Rahxephon's even has its own version of the otherworldly, not-quite-right-in-the-head girl by the name of Kuon. Thing is though that Rei is an interesting character, Kuon joins the rest of the bland looking cast on the production line.


Not really. Quon has an actual personality, as opposed to Rei who's just a lifeless puppet. Even so, the albino-like quiet girl with the messed up origin was done before Eva, in Key the Metal Idol. Eva didn't invent this either.

BTW, you say every Eva character has their own carbon copy in Rah, but Rah has no Gendou, Asuka, Kaji, Maya, Hyuga, Makoto, Fuyutsugi, etc... And Shinji/Ayato, and Rei/Quon aren't all that alike anyway.

If you really, really, really liked Eva and just can't get enough, watch this series. But even for an Eva freak like me, Rahxephon just can't compare. It simply cannot match the depth of feeling and originality of that earlier series. For non-Eva freaks, Rahxephon is at best mildly entertaining and they could actually consider the Bronze I give it generous.


I'd agree that RahXephon's depth isn't on the level of Evangelion. But Evangelion is not original at all, as I've mentioned everything you talk about was things that Eva stole from other animes, just like RahXephon did. The shows are from the same genre. Thats why they are similar. Not because RahXephon ripped off Eva, since Eva is as unoriginal as everything else out there. Its time to watch some older mecha shows like MS Gundam, Raideen, Ideon, Gunbuster and others so you can see that Eva took nearly all its ideas from earlier shows.
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Postby EVA-01X » Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:00 pm

score one for Quiddity
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Postby Phaze » Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:28 pm

Dual: Parallel Universe, Nadeisco, and Betterman also both have familiarities towards Eva. Infact, there plenty of shows containing homage to Eva. The only thing I would call a rip-off of Eva is if a series makes no attempt at a different storyline, and relies solely on its similarities to Eva.
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Postby Asuka Loves Toji » Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:39 am

coughargentosomacough well it wasnt a rip off but it was still bad
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Postby utero2001 » Sat Jul 10, 2004 6:09 am

well it wasnt a rip off but it was still bad

I thought that, but a lot of people think differantly


Gee, only THE BIGGEST CLICHE IN MECHA HISTORY.

EVA is a benchmark in anime history. And I still think that RahXephon is a copycat ploy to make money

score one for Quiddity

hehe you people play too much american football

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damn good arguements against. When I've got over the fact that I've screwed up my year at uni, I'll try and get an interesting reply down :wink:

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Postby Quiddity » Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:24 pm

EVA is a benchmark in anime history. And I still think that RahXephon is a copycat ploy to make money



RahXephon was made by many former members of Sunrise, the company that made the various mecha shows that influenced Eva so heavily like Gundam and Ideon. If RahXephon is a copy of anything, it is of Brave Raideen, made by *gasp* some of the same people who made RahXephon. It was intentional, not as a ripoff or copycat of Eva.

BTW, I know its heresy to say, but Eva was made to make money too! And it did just that! :twisted:
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Postby EVA-01X » Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:46 pm

What do execpt from an american football player? Of course I play to much football :wink:
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Postby utero2001 » Sat Jul 10, 2004 5:02 pm

What do execpt from an american football player? Of course I play to much football


not trying to put down the sport, but have you played rugby before? (lol hardly anime related)

no armour, no stops every five seconds, pure muscle :wink:

BTW, I know its heresy to say, but Eva was made to make money too! And it did just that!

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Postby Hunter21 » Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:07 am

I played both- Rugby is a big pushing, and grabbing match played by people who can no longer play football because they are too small/out of shape/not talented enough and would get massacred if hit by a 6'3" 250lb lineman, (unfortunately I am one of them now :oops: )

And as for EVA being a benchmark- I doesn't really matter if it was or not, it still borrowed from earlier works and being better than them does not give it clemency.

RahXephon borrows from earlier works as well, but so does just about every other anime series out there.

Now that I think about it EVA has got to be near the top of the list for money spent vs. return.
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Postby utero2001 » Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:43 am

Rugby is a big pushing, and grabbing match played by people who can no longer play football because they are too small/out of shape/not talented enough and would get massacred if hit by a 6'3" 250lb lineman,


just cus they bolt on loads of armour so you can run into each other. American football is for fat people cus they have to take breaks every five seconds. They would fall to pieces if they played rugby.american Football is for cowards...it's basically rugby but with shit loads of armour on, where is the machoism there? I can see why your interests lie more in it, it is pretty popular in the US, like baseball (rounders), and nascar

sorry this thread has turned into a footy bashing area

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Postby Olin of Xephon » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:51 am

sorry this thread has turned into a footy bashing area


Yes it has! If Shinji were to stumble across this thread he'd turn tail and run. Ayato would probably have a go at it for a couple of rounds but get real tried of fighting with people. Like I do.

As you can tell from my handle, I'm a big Rahxephon fan, and I would take a moment to defend it if Quiddity had not already done such a great job. I don't really know what your beef is with Rahxephon utero2001, or with football for that matter, but Rahxephon is a great show.

I have seen far more blatnet Evangelion rip offs in over two dozen other anime (most of which I enjoyed immensely anyway) and i have never seen a anime take as much bashing for doing this the Rahxephon.

I think the main reason so many Eva fans pick at it is because it's the first anime to come that close to stealing away that fateful ground breaking anime status bestowed upn Eva so long ago.

Look, I love Evangelion as much as the next guy. Correctin I love Eva twice as much as the next guy, I saw it seven years ago, and it is still my avorite anime of all time, but that does not mean I can't appreciate a good show when I see one. And Rahxephon is awseom show!

I can't help wishing when I watch it, that Gainax had had that kind of budget whe they did Eva.

As Dave said it is a love story, not as deep or as confusing as Eva, it is not trying to be. It has it's own story to tell.

And as quiddity pointed out, even Eva was based off of something. Everything we have comes from something! Every story has been told.
The important thing is the retelling.
And yes, in the end it is about the money. You spend money to make the damn thing, you want to get a little (a lot) back. No skin off anybosy's nose.

Shouldn't people be applauding Rahxephon for everything it got right instead of the similliarites it has with another anime?

There are two things Quiddity didn't really defend. The acusation that Rahxephon's characters are bland, and that it has bad art direction.

One, the characters in Rahxephon ARE bland when you compare them to Evangelions.' Shinji and company are, in typically amazing Gainax form, really over the top characters. Yes they are very human, but are far more emtionally unstable then Rahxephon's more analytical cast.

As fars Art direction goes, I'm sorry. But it's Beutiful.
Better then Evabgelion's TV series come to that. But End of Eva still makes my jaw drop just a little farther then Rahxephon. Then Again, I'm only on volume five.

Bottom line, Rahxephon is not a rip off. I think which one you like better has a lot to do with which one you saw first, but they are both amazing and perfect.
I hope to god, Rahxephon doesn't get stuck playing Star Trek to Evangelion's Star wars.

No reason I can't like them both.
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Postby ShoKenju » Thu Jul 22, 2004 9:07 am

apparently some people thing RahXephon to be what Eva tried to be ><
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Re: RahXephon

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Postby NeonZ » Wed Aug 18, 2004 12:26 pm

--SPOILERS--







Quiddity wrote:One who likes Eva should most certainly enjoy RahXephon.


Except for the fact that RahXephon seems to convey a message opposite to Eva's. In the end, Ayato destroy the world and creates a new world. His world. His perfect world.

I hated that, though I did like the rest of Rahx, though not as much as Eva.

And about RahX being an Eva rip-off... while I agree that it isn't, it's also not much original...

And, yes, Eva was original. Be it by using old elements in a new format, or by creating new elements. Yes, it wasn't completely original, but it surely was more original than Rahx...

Here are some commentaries about the article comparing Eva and Gundam:

I think I'll start with the main character. Lets call him 'Bob', although thats not what his actual name is. Bob is a Japanese teenager, just like Shinji. It is stressed early in the series that he has been seperated from his parents often, especially in recent times.

Amuro lived with his father, though he was often absent at work. His mother lived at Earth, very far from him. The situation is almost as bad as Shinji's, but you worded it to make both sound almost identical.

In the first episode of the series Bob is in a city under attack by an enemy threat. Intense damage is dealt to the surroundings and there are many casualties. Bob ends up getting into the cockpit of a powerful robot and uses it to save everyone, just like Shinji.

Amuro finds the Gundam and decides to pilot it by himself, so, it surely wasn't like Shinji. Also, Gundam has lots of civilian casualties, while Eva only had military dying.

Unfortunately for Bob, he essentially finds himself forced into a powerful military organization, just like Shinji was essentially forced into NERV.

True.

Being just a teenager, Bob certainly isn't suited to the life of a mecha pilot. He is put under a lot of stress and often times doesn't want to pilot the mech. Sometimes he can't take it anymore and blatantly says he will never pilot the mech again. When he finds the situation that this decision puts his friends in though, he reluctantly returns to his duty. Bob is often in conflict with his superiors, especially a certain male authority figure. Sound familiar? Thats not all.

At one point in the series Bob is put over the edge. He commits treason against the organization much like Shinji did when he threatened to destroy NERV HQ. After this situation is settled, Bob is thrown in a cell, just like Shinji was. Despite that act, he is eventually brought back to good terms with everyone else.

While everything you said is true, your worded it to hide all the differences. Yes, Amuro did have some conflicts with Bright, but he also had with Mirai and everyone else in there. He usually focused on Bright just because he was the authority in the White Base.
Also, Amuro tried to steal the Gundam! That's very different from using the Eva to trash Nerv.

Like Shinji, Bob is unconfident in his abilities in the beginning, but slowly gets used to it and realizes he is better than he originally thought. There is a period when this puts him and trouble, and Bob becomes overconfident in his abilities. Luckily, this particular thought soon goes away.

Yes, he stops putting himself in trouble, but continues to be overconfident. That's very different from Shinji...

Bob has an odd relationship with his father, who happens to be the one that built the mech he pilots, just like Gendou built Unit 01, which Shinji pilots. Their relationship is so bad that his father cares more about the mecha than his own son.

Actually, it should be "their relationship is so bad because his father cares more about the mecha than his own son." Amuro's father was completely crazy by the time he died. The Gundam was everything for him. In fact, I felt sorry for the guy...

There is also a part in the series where Bob is removed as the pilot of the mecha and is replaced with a female pilot (just like when Shinji was replaced with Rei as the pilot of Unit 01). This doesn't work out, and things go back to normal. I'd say that pretty much makes Bob a Shinji ripoff, don't you think?

What?! Sayla takes off with the Gundam without authorization. Amuro wasn't replaced by anyone, she just took off with it to meet her brother.

While the similarities between Bob and Shinji is the biggest thing that made me think this show was an Eva ripoff, there are other things out there as well. For example, in this show the 'good guys' base their survival on 3 mechas, just like in Evangelion.

Huh... Ok. Have you forgotten about the G-Fighters? And waht about all those battles with lots of GMs helping the good guys?

By the end of the series, all 3 of these mechas are rendered useless, just like in Evangelion where Units 00 and 02 were destroyed and Unit 01 drifted off into space.

Actually, the core fighter, the center of the Gundam, was still pretty usable. In fact, it IS used later to build an AI based on Amuro's battle data.

There are multitudes of scenes that just scream out "Eva ripoff!". One of the adversaries wears a mask that looks like its taken right from Keel Lorenz.

..... This doesn't need a reply...

Late in the series, our hero has a battle with a skull faced enemy that shoots beams out of its mouth. Reminds you of Zeruel, doesn't it? In one scene near the end of the show our hero's mecha is dismembered and decapitated, just like what happened to Unit 02.

Ok... this one can be accepted...

There's another scene that seems like its taken straight out of the movie. Enemy troopers burst into the headquarters of our heroes and kill many, but their mission ultimately ends up being a failure and they are unable to take the main part of the base.

I don't see how that resembles the invasion of EoE. For one, the ones who attacked the headquarters in Eva weren't "enemies".they weren't angels, they were humans. It'd be a rip off, if the Federation had attacked the White Base in Gundam, but the Zeon were the one who did it.

Another part that I can recall being reminded of from the movie is when a suicidial blond attempts to blow up our heroes HQ by sacrificing herself. She fails however, and is killed, just like what happened to Ritsuko in the end.

You fail to mention that the "blowing up" involved a kamikaze attack, not an auto destruction system. Also, the blonde was one of the Zeon. If she were a member of the White Base, or, at least, Federation, it could be a rip off, but was it stands there's no similarity between them.

You know what... I'll rip-off your article... :twisted:

Read this:

I'll start with the name of the main charachter... let's call him... Mark, although that's not his actual name. Mark is a Japanese teenager, just like Shinji. It is stressed that his mother is dead, and he spent years without seeing his father again. In the first episode, we see a huge form moving through water, just like Sachiel in the first episode of Eva. Soon, the city Mark lives in is attacked by a giant humanoid monster with a skull shaped head, which easily defeats the conventional army. The city is heavily damaged, and the army is utterly innefective. Mark ends up in the cockpit of a powerful robot, just as the laboratory it was built in is attacked by the enemies. He tries to use it to save everyone, even though he had no previous knowedge of giant robots.But, when he gets to pilot it, he can't control it, and almost hurts the people he was trying to protect, just like Shinji.

Soon, Mark finds himself in a special organization created to fight against the mysterious enemy. But, even though he enters in this organization, he continues to live a "normal" live, even continuing to go to school, just like Shinji. Unfortunatly, Mark isn't suited for the life of a Mecha pilot, and often he's in conflict with his superiors, particularly with a male authority figure who had a part in creating the organization, and the mechas used by it, just like Gendo in Eva.
Like Shinji, Bob is unconfident in his abilities in the beginning, but slowly gets used to it and realizes he is better than he originally thought. There is a period when this puts him and trouble, and Bob becomes overconfident in his abilities. Luckily, this particular thought soon goes away.

Just erase Bob and put Mark in there.

Mark initially has a bad relationship with his father, who left him years ago. Meanwhile, his father learned of the coming of a menance which could wipe out the whole humanity, and built a giant robot to fight against it. To pilot it, he raised a child to become a pilot. That child initially seems to have become a cold person, but later shows feelings. Aren't them just like Gendo and Rei? And that's not all, upon learning of the relationship of the other pilot with his father, Mark initially envies the other pilot, though later they become friends.

But that's not all. Just like in Eva, the base of the good guys is protected by three mechas. The third one is met only after the first two, and is piloted by an overconfident pilot, who often ended up crippled by the enemy, and being saved by Mark. One of the three mechas blows himself up to save Mark, everyone is sad for the death of the pilot, but, soon, the pilot reappears fine, exactly like Rei did after blowing up Unit-00.
There's another scene that seems like its taken straight out of the movie. Enemy troopers burst into the headquarters of our heroes and kill many, but their mission ultimately ends up being a failure and they are unable to take the main part of the base.


Also, just like in Eva, during most of the series, only one enemy appeared in each episode, but during the movie that ended the series, a large group of very powerful enemies appeared at the same time, and completely destroyed one of the hero mechs who attempted to face the enemy troops by itself, just like Unit-02 in the movie.

Ok, I think I've already proved that this is very similar to Eva, right? Now it's time to reveal the name of the anime, right?

Mazinger Z

http://www.gearsonline.net/designers/mazinger-z.jpg

Don't you know what Mazinger Z is? It's the first Super Robot anime, the first anime which used robots with cockpits, and which came out several years before Mobile Suit Gundam, in the early 70s.

Now, anyone who has watched Mazinger Z will know that it's nothing like Eva, at all, even though everything I've said is true. So...? Can you see how it's useless to try to compare shows through some artificial summaries? :wink:
Last edited by NeonZ on Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Dave » Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:10 pm

I think whoever wrote that was being trying more to show how it's useless to call any show a ripoff of another than to prove Gundam copied Eva...
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