Knives wrote:I was going to respond to a couple points, but completely forgot in my rant with Soluzar

You two boys have to settle down. Don't make me get my chainsaw.

I like this little system we have, Reichu.
I state what I take as being obvious, and you point out good solid support for it.

Actually, the whole system is a trainwreck.

When you find something "obvious", you leave it up to everyone else to find the evidence (if it's there) while parrying everything that the rest of us throw at you with these convoluted labyrinths of logic and pseudophilosophical banter that make debates more aggravating than fun.

When we find something "obvious", it's because we've already discussed this stuff many times over before (and are otherwise drawing on prior years of NGE fandom). Indoctrinating forum n00bs -- while oftentimes resulting in satisfaction and 'progress' -- can be an aggravating process. To make these things equally "obvious" to others, we either have to dig up the original discussions or guide them through everything from scratch. Usually, it ends up being a combination of the two. I suspect it's a painful process for both parties, but if the n00bs take certain precautions (e.g., Stuffman's "flame-resistant suit" ), things can actually go rather pleasantly.

Anyway, I forget what the hell I was talking about.

While I'm not sure you're convinced either way, this does help the argument that physical damage can indeed be occurring.

I think more than anything else, I'm convinced that we've hit another one of those "irresolvable bullcrap" issues.

It's a beautiful doodle and much appreciated. But still, the blade is awfully close to her eye region.

I was mostly trying to get the point across that if the creators were in any way concerned about "accuracy" there (and they obviously weren't), Asuka should have been bleeding from four pierce wounds -- two on her forehead, two on the back of her skull. Granted, she should also have been dead. If there is any "real" reason why she is enigmatically bleeding from the eye itself (and watch the scene closely; I'd say that she is) instead of receiving the equivalent of the damage that EVA-02 actually sustained in the cranium, I'd love to hear it.

I don't know the language, but didn't we say in other posts that the Japanese have issue with, for instance, foot and leg, and hand and arm ... could it be the case here too?
Or would you rather the script have said "clutching her left-forehead region" ... a little wordy if you ask me .

As far as I know, there is not a similar problem with "eye". They have a word for "forehead" and aren't afraid to use it! (Granted, they have words for lots of things, but have a bad habit of using the bastardized Engrish instead because it's "cooler".)

Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 04:46 GMT

Soluzar wrote:For the record, Reichu, whose '"crazy" theory am I attempting to defend? Did you originate this one, or somebody else?

Page 1, here. Not something I'm terribly invested in; it just popped into my head as a possibility, so I mentioned it. (I feel somewhat wary about the "visual metaphor" babble after my attempts to strike down Mr. Tines' arguments about the entry plug visuals.) It seemed feasible for a time, in the absence of any real explanation for these somewhat unexplainable (even in the logic of the NGE world) instances. (Unless we want to get magic involved, and make comparisons between the Evas and Escaflowne... Erm, nevermind.) Once people started mentioning A.T. Fields, I figured, "Ok, whatever. I guess if someone really wanted to cleave their own arm lengthwise, that might be a way to do it..." Or, put somewhat less sardonically, since the A.T. Field can influence physical form, or something, it could make an allowance for physical damage or other "bad stuff" happening to the Eva to manifest in the pilot (but only as the creators see fit, of course...). I'm not really sure how much I buy all of that, but it seems like the surest ticket to a semi-real answer we're going to get.

How much you want to run with the "visual metaphor" postulate is, of course, your own prerogative...

I would still like someone to address the "disappearing Armi-veins", if it is at all possible...

Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 05:01 GMT

Garh , my computer randomly shut down ... piece of junk.

Reichu wrote:I would still like someone to address the "disappearing Armi-veins", if it is at all possible...

Anywayz ... as I was saying.
To offer the simplest of answers, it's quite possible that as the "veins" receeded from the Eva with the removal of the tentacle (which you pointed out as occurring), that the "veins" thereby receeded from the pilot as well.

Theoretically, I can stick any number of objects in my flesh and it form a shape to conform to it (if I stick a tube in there, it forms a "vein"-like appearance). Should I remove that tube, my flesh doesn't retain that same form (not the exact form at least ... some residual damage may remain perhaps).

But yeah .. That's the easiest and most likely answer I can come up with. Unless you want to suggest that the "veins" we see in the Eva are also just a visual representation and not actually happening (which I don't think you do).

Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 07:19 GMT

But those veins look pretty damn serious... I think it would leave some mark if things like that were forced on someone's face.

My explanation is that nobody wanna see wrinkled up Shinji's face so they didnt animate it!

Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 20:18 GMT

Gaizokubanou wrote:But those veins look pretty damn serious... I think it would leave some mark if things like that were forced on someone's face.

My explanation is that nobody wanna see wrinkled up Shinji's face so they didnt animate it!

That'd be my second excuse ... simply due to the fact that the ScreenShot Reichu posted was in the original cut and the other stuff was in the DC ... in order to show "physical" strain, Anno'd have to reanimate the pic Reichu posted.

And yet, aside from that, we do see that the physical "trauma" receeded from Yui ... and if Shinji is experiencing what Yui experiences, then by equivocation (... I'm just using a big word for the sake of using it — it sounds appropriate ) Shinji's wounds should receed as well.

Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 09:25 GMT

Knives wrote:And yet, aside from that, we do see that the physical "trauma" receeded from Yui ... and if Shinji is experiencing what Yui experiences, then by equivocation (... I'm just using a big word for the sake of using it — it sounds appropriate ) Shinji's wounds should receed as well.

You will note that this offers evidence in neither direction. Whatever evidence your theory has, this cannot constitute a part of it, and equally, it cannot constitute a part of mine. It fits both theories equally. I will be with you shortly on the matter of evidence for my favoured theory, Knives.

Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 09:31 GMT

It didn't "recede" from Yui -- it simply disappeared. Watch the scene; the venous crap is there where Armisael is torn off her face, and in the next cut, when Yui slumps over, it is gone. This is obviously a continuity gaff. I suppose it could be argued that Armi's biomass was supposed to be withdrawn from Yui's body, but Armi WAS just forcefully torn away, I don't think she had time to 'withdraw'.

Also, even after EVA-00 isolates Armisael's biomass into the core, Rei still looks the same as before with regard to the placement of the veins. She doesn't get this enormous swelling in her solar plexus. A combination of continuity gaffs and the animators selectively deciding what part of the Eva's condition they want to 'imprint' upon the pilot, if you ask me. Similarly, we don't see Rei's back swelling in accordance with Zero's earlier.

The Rei problems might be attributed to the fact that her animation was not updated to reflect the changes to what happens to Zero in the NPC. This still does not explain why the veins are gone in the arm we see later, lying in the entry plug, if they were there the moment Zero went kaboom. Unless they were, possibly, not really there to begin with?

Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 12:54 GMT