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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Wed Sep 05, 2007 9:58 pm

Due to our source material, a certain level of Not Safe For Work material is going to be inevitable. However, we should try not to be ... gratuitous, with our allowances. At least one of the current images in the Shipping entry of the Geektionary could be said to be a little ... forward.

Inevitably, pictures of naked cartoon people are going to be present on the wiki, and present in major articles too. As well as this we can expect pictures of the bloody and the dead, and disturbing pictures of exposed human internals, and at least one obscured image of a miscarriage if I recall correctly.

We should not be in any way hesitant to put such images on a page with the proper prominence they deserve. This project is not about sugar coating Evangelion. It is about presenting it frankly and comprehensively in an effort to help people better understand the show.

However, when we do put up such images, we're doing it for a reason, namely it is required to accurately represent the events, ideas or themes in the show. We are not doing it because we like naughty pictures, or at least, we cannot really been seen to be doing it for these reasons.

There was some discussion in the Inner Sanctum about such issues across the site, but nothing has been decided yet. Hopefully no actual decision will be needed, but the forces of reality are not always so kind.

Anyway, I doubt any polices will ever have to be implemented for the wiki, as the amount of editors is relatively small. But we should nonetheless try to avoid being gratuitous with the wiki articles content.

P.S.
Whether and why any images or content currently on the wiki are in fact gratuitous is something that should be determined by discussion in this thread, and not by just one persons opinion. So, people are invited to give their opinions here, and reasons for them.
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Postby V » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:31 am

While we can show pictures of naked people and/or violence which are directly from the show or even from spinoff video games, I am opposed on general principle to allowing risque stuff like the one in the media gallery of a naked Rei and Asuka kissing; simply because *it didn't happen* and thus people would get the wrong idea about the series by coming here. The sole reason I do not want to allow it is because it didn't happen and would confuse people as to what this show is about. Stuff from WITHIN the show is fine, and even "suggestive" fanart pictures are permissible so long as they are fully clothed, but we cannot allow that picture you are referring to, or ones like it.
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:42 am

V wrote:While we can show pictures of naked people and/or violence which are directly from the show or even from spinoff video games, I am opposed on general principle to allowing risque stuff like the one in the media gallery of a naked Rei and Asuka kissing; simply because *it didn't happen* and thus people would get the wrong idea about the series by coming here.

That's another very important point. Quite apart from peoples scruples on issues, the wiki should strive not to be misrepresentatative of the series or the community. I believe there was a disclaimer on the picture in question however.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Thu Sep 06, 2007 1:20 pm

I have a number of rather softer images for the A/R niche -- such as both in school uniform, Rei looking like she's just given Asuka a peck on the cheek; or both in winter-weight civvies embracing and looking deeply into each other's eyes.


If you want to trust the taste of the Dirty Old Man of the forums, then I'll upload one to replace the current offending entry. I don't have provenance, apart from THAT BOARD, so I'm not sure what the naming scheme should be.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:15 pm

Reichu once said it best, and I agree with her (paraphrased): If you have a problem with adult content, then you shouldn't be watching/reading Eva.

Although I personally didn't upload anything adult (save for a link, warning provided, to my AFF account, which Reichu gave-me the "go ahead" with), I don't have any problem with Adult Content (Hell, I post on THAT BOARD).
(Though violence freaks me out. Interestingly enough, only one scene in Eva really gives me the jibbiles, and that's the EoE "lol Lilith's creepy expression as Shogoki enters her Third Eye" scene! Besides that, none of the violence really bothers me, which is...unusual for a weak-stomach (Well, I don't react Maya-style, but still. :tonguegrin: ) like myself.)


Provided there's a warning on the front page as well as a warning somewhere on pages that have any AC--since people have a right to know what they're getting into--I don't think we'll have any problems.

After all, the original FGC has those "Shipping" section image links as well as a link to THAT BOARD.

So why should that change now?

And "A scene of miscarriage"...? :huh: Did I miss something...?


@ Tines: Though I hate non-canon pairings, I <3 Yuri/Shoujo-ai (Yuri over Yaoi any day! ...Except for Gravitation.). Could you PM me those "softer" pics?
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Postby thewayneiac » Fri Sep 07, 2007 10:39 am

I've already uploaded an alternative image to use if neccessary, but Reichu has no objection to the one that's already there.
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Postby V » Fri Sep 07, 2007 8:21 pm

Reichu once said it best, and I agree with her (paraphrased): If you have a problem with adult content, then you shouldn't be watching/reading Eva.


Fanart creations aren't what "Eva" is though in the sense that.....well, most people dismiss "anime" as merely what the more experienced of us know as actually "hentai".

Quite simply, it doesn't make sense to use risque fanart pictures when 1-they're not from the actual show and 2-there are readily available alternative fanart pictures. Heck, even a fanart pic of Rei making out with Asuka I would deem permissible. Let's just keep the nude fanart down.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sun Sep 09, 2007 3:24 pm

There IS a difference between nudity and Hentai, so I guess your saying naked characters fanart or not is okay, Hentai is not?
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Postby Reichu » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:37 pm

ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:Quite apart from peoples scruples on issues, the wiki should strive not to be misrepresentatative of the series

The site isn't exactly intended for people who haven't seen it.

or the community.

Sadly, naughty pictures (etc.) of the characters don't misrepresent the fan community (as a whole) in any way whatsoever.

For my part, I think the concerns are "overly puritanical", but then I'm a rather desensitized sort. When I wrote the Shipping entry oh so long ago, I was approaching it as a ludicrous phenomenon, so I threw in some of what I considered "ludicrous" images. Volumptuously nude Rei and Asuka about to share a kiss, with the scene disturbed by a blank-faced Shinji peering in, is the kind of "tongue-in-cheek" thing I can appreciate.

In any case, I never got any complaints from the various people who were referred to the Geektionary over the years (not even about "SURPRISE BUTTSECKS"), so I never took any of the pictures down. They didn't have "fluids"; they didn't have anything clearly discernible as rape, sexual violence, or guro; they didn't have loli or shota; etc. Those are the sorts of places where I would be inclined to step A BIT more carefully.

With regard to Shipping, the old entry is really there is be plundered. Anything actually relevant to shipping needs to be expanded upon. I'm not sure if the habit of throwing Person A + Person B together in some way, but not really advocating them as a couple, counts, even though I include it. Other A/R pics depicting the relationship in a variety of ways aren't hard to come by (e.g., the hard drives of various people right here); I'd suggest focusing on the content of the actual article right now.

I will say that I'll be rather upset if I can't include "Angel Kiss" in its uncensored entirety. (It actually WOULD have a point.)

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:33 pm

Embedded links to questionable content seems fair game. We could come up with some kind of NSFW tag, but since major portions of the site are already nsfw, it would seem only a token measure. Links are fine, but I'm bother with the idea of simply throwing content in front of casual browsers without warning, at least when it isn't justified. If they want to follow risque links fine, but when they're just strolling across the site we shouldn't try to fry their brains too much.
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Postby V » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:34 pm

linking to material isn't that big of an issue; what I'm concerned about is simply loading the actual images onto the site

Nudity is not necessarily a problem, but "a naked Rei and Asuka embracing" is what I think goes too far. I'm still concerned about people getting "the wrong idea"; linking to on off-site image would be a good way of skirting around this, though.
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:38 pm

V wrote: I'm still concerned about people getting "the wrong idea"; linking to on off-site image would be a good way of skirting around this, though.

Or indeed and onsite, but offwiki image. I doubt most will see much of a distinction in any case,
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Postby V » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:47 pm

so long as the pictures deemed "risque" are not displayed in the article itself, just linked
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My (probably unwanted) two cents.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:27 pm

Bumpin' this bitch. Let's discuss this issue some MOAR. ;)

Reichu wrote:"If I had my way" -- Monkey and V can be expected to provide resistance to any dreams I might have. The official policy on so-called "adult" stuff was never fully resolved, though I'll be fighting puritanical policy to the end. NGE is a damned dirty anime, after all.

Something to argue about in the nonexistence hidden subforum.


Personally, I agree with Reichu on this. Eva IS a series that has adult content, so if you can't handle that, you really shouldn't be watching Eva in the first place.

Granted, Eva isn't a show where there's any pornography, but the fact that scenes such as Misato and Kaji's Episode 20 off-screen bonking along with the 25 & 26' College days scenes of them going at it, shows, IMO at least, that this really isn't a show for the kiddies. (Despite that crazy Anno supposedly once saying he thinks "kids should watch Eva, too, to understand real life better." or some such thing.)

Oh, and something about a few images in Episode 02 and EoE looking like a "certain part of the female body". Though in regards to THAT.... 1) It's human anatomy, it's natural. 2) It's not meant to be pornographic.

One more thing: In regards to pornography, I think it'd be best (if this route is taken) to have images/links/whatever be linked from the site but viewed as a small thumbnail. That way, if people really object to a certain image/whatever it is, they have the option of not viewing it.

Either way, I think in the forums or the "actual" site, NSFW tags would be a great idea. ^_^
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Postby Ornette » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:58 pm

I think before a conclusive decision can be made we need to finish the site organization, so we know who's going to be responsible for what and how much sole control that person is going to have.

In regards to pornography, I'm fine with keeping it off the site entirely. There's NSFW content, like scantily clad anime girls, then there's pr0n. The former I think it's fine as long as there's a context for it, the latter I'm fine with keeping off the site entirely. There's places were we can find that stuff, and if anyone wants it, they should know where to go. Same with linking to porn sites. Sites that happen to contain some pornographic images would be ok to link to, for example my site, it has pornographic images on it, somewhere, but it's not accessible from the front page and I don't link directly to them.

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Postby V » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:40 pm

It's alright if its "risque content" from within the show itself...or even drawn by the official artists (stuff Sadamoto has drawn).

But we really cannot post obviously porn fanart (doujinshi). Linking to stuff isn't a problem. As for fanfic; on this site itself, please keep it WAFF and not PWP. Otherwise we'd get complaints that we don't have a "check here to confirm you're 21" thing on the front page.

Anything from within the show itself or an official Gainax produced piece of artwork is alright.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:45 pm

Ornette wrote:I think before a conclusive decision can be made we need to finish the site organization, so we know who's going to be responsible for what and how much sole control that person is going to have.


Agreed, I was just giving my two cents on the issue, most likely in a not that clear way. ^^;

Sites that happen to contain some pornographic images would be ok to link to, for example my site, it has pornographic images on it, somewhere, but it's not accessible from the front page and I don't link directly to them.


I agree with this.

I believe one of the eventual Out-site links to the site would be THAT BOARD. I know I stumbled across something about that once on one of the Wiki-media software pages at least.

V wrote:Linking to stuff isn't a problem. As for fanfic; on this site itself, please keep it WAFF and not PWP. Otherwise we'd get complaints that we don't have a "check here to confirm you're 21" thing on the front page.


...Is this in regards to the site as a whole, or the forums...? I'm wondering just because I know lately people have been posting (off-site links or on these forums themselves) some adult 'fics. ...Plus, it'd be nice to know for my own benefit, as I plan on at one point posting an excerpt from a fic of mine. ^_^

Also, it'd be good to mention the above somewhere on the main part of the forums so the other writers on here know, too. Perhaps as a Sticky in the Fandom section?

But, whether if it's WAFF or PWP, pr0n is pretty much still pr0n. ;)

or even drawn by the official artists (stuff Sadamoto has drawn).


I'm still not certain if those "YS11" drawings from that one H-doujin (the name escapes me at the moment, though the actual "story" sucks) are really by Sadamoto or not... It looks somewhat like his style, but it could always be somebody just copying it.
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Postby Reichu » Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:42 pm

V wrote:But we really cannot post obviously porn fanart (doujinshi).

I wouldn't want people posting the stuff gratuitously, but I think there should be some wiggle room.

It's also arguable exactly what constitutes "porn". It's not always so clear-cut.

Otherwise we'd get complaints that we don't have a "check here to confirm you're 21" thing on the front page.

......Would we?

Anything from within the show itself or an official Gainax produced piece of artwork is alright.

I take it you haven't heard of the Stripping Instrumentality Project, V.

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Postby V » Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:32 am

this is me trying to fairly handle the issue

yes, ANYTHING that "official" Gainax art made or people who worked on the show made is good

fanfic which blatantly pushes the limits should not be directly posted here

no problems whatsoever with linking to off-site stuff (some other sites have problems with that kind of thing)

ultimately the decision is not up to me
Who is "Codename V"?....
I'm pleased to meet you and I hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game...so catch me if you can!! (0:50)
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You say you say you want a REvolution?...
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