Regarding Shinji and Kaworu

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Postby the_seventh_child » Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:34 am

Reichu wrote:(Incidentally, Asuka was originally to have covered her chest as she stood naked by the bathtub in #22', but in the final she only clutches her side.)

where exactly is this in #22?

and btw i was watching the EoE again and during the 1:03:34-1:03:39 it shows Misato saying no,kissing is not for kids..who is she talking to?does anyone have any screenshots?
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Postby Dave » Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:21 am

Reichu wrote:Yui is shown with long hair when Shinji is embraced by her in #16, but I actually have a theory about that.


D'oh! I knew I had scene a picture like that somewhere before... shame on me for not memorizing every flashed image. Anyway, please provide your theory (or a link to it) Reichu.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:55 am

Regarding Shinji/Asuka or Shinji/Kaworu, I recommend this thread on the matter. There are some good links hidden in there, as well.

(manga spoiler... ish)
The long-haired Yui... what's your theory on that, Reichu?


Well, I don't have much to explain Sadamoto's use of the figure in volume 8, but here is what I could come up with.

Is that picture of the woman holding her chest definitely identified as Asuka, then? If so, I guess she is indeed and unquestionably Shinji's desire.


Not definitely, no. I think that is what's most likely, though, all things considered.

Although there is the ever-intriguing matter of Shinji's blushing...


What, you mean this?

Image

Image

Image

Well... okay. I'm guessing you meant these:

Image

Image

Image

Image

And ESPECIALLY this:

Image

Did you know that one can be attracted to both girls AND guys at the same time! It's this new thing, they're calling it... bisexuality. ;)

Did you know that if you're hetero but you masturbate, you're actually bi? Well, that's a bit of a simplification, but I was going around saying this tongue-in-cheek for a while and then I found a rather scholarly article that basically said the same thing!

Masturbation mocks, even "deconstructs," the categories and concepts of both our everyday (ordinary) and technical (scientific) sexual discourses. Masturbation, like sex that can occur in a good marriage or with an admired and intimate lover, is sex with someone I care about and to whose satisfaction and welfare I am devoted. Masturbation is incestuous, since it happens with someone to whom I am blood-related, someone within my own family. If I am married, my masturbating is adulterous, since it is sex with someone who is not my spouse, to whom I am not married. Masturbation is homosexual: a man sexually pleases a man or a woman sexually pleases a woman.

Amusing, if nothing else.

So by virtue of his little scene at the beginning of #25', Shinji is 'gay' anyway. ;)

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Postby Reichu » Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:09 am

the_seventh_child wrote:where exactly is this in #22?


Image

Image

and btw i was watching the EoE again and during the 1:03:34-1:03:39 it shows Misato saying no,kissing is not for kids..who is she talking to?does anyone have any screenshots?


Asuka and Shinji were reenacting the "wanna kiss?" scene from episode #15, for which Misato wasn't present originally. However, since her mind was connected to both of them in #26', I believe she was voicing her disapproval over the matter to Asuka. I.e., "Kissing isn't for kids, so the two of you shouldn't be doing it, now OR then." However, I could be mistaken -- that was just the impression I had.

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Postby Dave » Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:45 pm

Reichu wrote:So by virtue of his little scene at the beginning of #25', Shinji is 'gay' anyway.


And so is a good majority of the male population. Please, can't one guy hold another guy's hand? While naked... in the shower?
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Postby the_seventh_child » Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:03 pm

Reichu wrote:Image

Image



actually i think here she is holding her stomache..

Reichu wrote:
Asuka and Shinji were reenacting the "wanna kiss?" scene from episode #15, for which Misato wasn't present originally. However, since her mind was connected to both of them in #26', I believe she was voicing her disapproval over the matter to Asuka. I.e., "Kissing isn't for kids, so the two of you shouldn't be doing it, now OR then." However, I could be mistaken -- that was just the impression I had.

and yeah maybe you're right here..
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Postby Reichu » Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:19 pm

the_seventh_child wrote:actually i think here she is holding her stomache..


??? She's clutching her side, towards the bottom of the ribcage. The stomach is more towards the central vertical axis.

Actually, Dave, not only would most of the male population be gay by virtue of masturbating -- most females would, too. The world is full of bisexuals.

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Postby the_seventh_child » Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:32 pm

Reichu wrote:??? She's clutching her side, towards the bottom of the ribcage. The stomach is more towards the central vertical axis.

now that i see it again i think you're right..and something else..in director's cut #22 during Asuka's mind rape it's a part where Asuka continiously says:"Sohruy Asuka Langley,anta-baka,chance,is that what you want"..
the part where she "shows" her boobies is it on her phantasy?or it has been shown during the series?
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Postby Reichu » Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:18 pm

the_seventh_child wrote:now that i see it again i think you're right..and something else..in director's cut #22 during Asuka's mind rape it's a part where Asuka continiously says:"Sohruy Asuka Langley,anta-baka,chance,is that what you want"..
the part where she "shows" her boobies is it on her phantasy?or it has been shown during the series?


Are you talking about when she rips her shirt open to expose her cleavage (or, ahem, lack thereof)? That scene is from the flashback added to the beginning of #22, which chronologically occurs before episode #08, when Asuka tries to seduce Kaji with her "adult charms". The cut of her pulling her shirt open and screaming "So look at me!" (Dakara watashi o mite!) is incorporated into the mind rape scene you mention above.

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Postby Tabris » Wed Dec 15, 2004 6:22 pm

Thanks for the links, Reichu. The "how gay is Shinji" thread was quite interesting, some things I'd not thought about before there... but that's after all why I'm here, for other POVs...

Is that picture of the woman holding her chest definitely identified as Asuka, then? If so, I guess she is indeed and unquestionably Shinji's desire...

Not definitely, no. I think that is what's most likely, though, all things considered.


Probably as 'definite' as anything in Eva ever is... :wink: The fact we see that image when the question 'what do you desire' is asked is the biggest clue. To be honest, I completely missed it in the film, the image is hard to make out at best, and without the reference pic and looking closely at a still image I don't think I'd have been able to see it at all. Of course, whatever Shinji's desire really is, it doesn't exclude the fact someone can love/be attracted to more than one person at once, and still choose one over the other.

Although there is the ever-intriguing matter of Shinji's blushing...

This is kind of an amusing subject for me (I had a habit of blushing catastrophically when I was around thirteen or fourteen, which didn't necessarily have anything to do with attraction, more a fear of social situations). In that knowledge, it doesn't seem particularly strange that Shinji blushes at all, given the situations. Going on his tendency to blush at those moments anime characters traditionally do, though, it's hard to decide whether this isn't just 'par for the course' or if it's meant to convey something deeper. That final picture of Shinji and Kaworu has always seemed deliberately enigmatic to me: Shinji looks utterly miserable, yet he doesn't 'run away' from the situation, even though he easily could... (probably because no-one's demanding him to stay). I'm still not sure what to make of that, I'm not convinced it's an indication of attraction, but then again, I'm not adamant it isn't, either.

Did you know that one can be attracted to both girls AND guys at the same time! It's this new thing, they're calling it... bisexuality. ;)

Did you know that if you're hetero but you masturbate, you're actually bi? Well, that's a bit of a simplification, but I was going around saying this tongue-in-cheek for a while and then I found a rather scholarly article that basically said the same thing!

Masturbation mocks, even "deconstructs," the categories and concepts of both our everyday (ordinary) and technical (scientific) sexual discourses. Masturbation, like sex that can occur in a good marriage or with an admired and intimate lover, is sex with someone I care about and to whose satisfaction and welfare I am devoted. Masturbation is incestuous, since it happens with someone to whom I am blood-related, someone within my own family. If I am married, my masturbating is adulterous, since it is sex with someone who is not my spouse, to whom I am not married. Masturbation is homosexual: a man sexually pleases a man or a woman sexually pleases a woman.


Indeed. However, given many peoples' vehemence with regard to the issue of personal sexuality I won't voice my own opinions on it here, they're easily misconstrued (or have often been).


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