What's up with The End of Evangelion?

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millinniummany3 [ANF]
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Postby millinniummany3 [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:40 pm

Reichu wrote:Hmm... Rei represents one's hope and dreams... She asks you what you wish for... You see what you wish for... SPLASH! I smell prognostication!



What if what you wish for is a world where you are not forced to conform to one ideaology or another, such as giving up your physical self?

Originally posted on: 24-Mar-2006, 06:24 GMT

LuigiHann [ANF]
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Postby LuigiHann [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:40 pm

Know what was interesting to notice? Aoba's the only person we see who gets more than one Rei to tangify him. All the other quantum Rei-tachi in that sequence are dressed in her schoolgirl outfit... but the ones that Aoba freaks out about are apparently naked.
Perhaps that is his fantasy after all...

Originally posted on: 24-Mar-2006, 12:50 GMT

Shin-seiki [ANF]
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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:40 pm

Reichu wrote:What, you mean their Hive Mind being dissolved and the Black Moon 'sploding? Oh, wait...

More specifically this:SCENE: SEELE monoliths

All (chanting):
Evangelion Unit 01's pilot...
Complement humankind with your imperfect ego.


Keel:
The moment of the Third Retribution has come.

(Eva series form into pattern)
They were suspicious all along of having Gendo's son as the pilot of Unit-01, yet now they seem quite confident that he will (from their POV) do the "right" thing, and Shinji does not disappoint. Did Yui (who, after all, is a member of SEELE, and understands how they think) take Shinji along for the ride, and allow his mind to be raped etc, because she needed everyone to go sploosh, in order to fullfill her plan? (For example, did she want to re-unite with Gendo just as much as he did with her, and this was the only way to make it happen?)

This seems to fit with Reichu's notion (as regards Kyoko/Asuka) of the mother within the EVA "puppeting" the pilot, to achieve her own ends...

Originally posted on: 24-Mar-2006, 12:57 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:40 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:Did Yui (who, after all, is a member of SEELE, and understands how they think) take Shinji along for the ride, and have his mind raped etc, because she needed everyone to go sploosh, in order to fullfill her plan? (For example, did she want to re-unite with Gendo just as much as he did with her, and this was the only way to make it happen?)



Is there any particular reason why she needed Shinji to say "YES KILL EVERYONE!" in order for this to happen, though? Or was Shinji just needed because he's Yui's little symbol for humanity's future on Earth, and... uh... Yui, get over here, dammit!

There are decidedly multiple facets to Yui's big plan. Letting people determine their own futures on Earth is apparently one, and then there's the other biggie: taking off to find a nice ball of rock and play her own role in the Human Lifecycle.

Well... Consider what going "sploosh" actually entails: Body is dissolved, soul is freed. Since, in Seele's scenario, all souls must be freed before they can be "reborn" as something else, the physical body thus serves as an "impasse to rebirth". Everybody knows what Seele is up to (mostly), but what sort of "rebirth" would be entailed by the version of human complementation supported by those contra Seele -- like, say, the Gehirn Trio...?
Keel "The promised time has come. With the Spear of Longinus lost, complementation using Lilith is impossible. Our only hope is to proceed with Eva Unit 01, Lilith's alter ego."
Ikari (behind) "While different from Seele's scenario——"
Fuyutsuki "Humanity has existed in order to create Eva."
Ikari "People should advance to a new world."
Ikari (behind) "That is the purpose of the Eva Series.
09 "We have no intention of casting aside human form simply to board the Ark called Eva."
012 "This is a rite of passage… so that humanity will no longer be sealed off from rebirth."
"The fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth."
"…so that we may become as one through the 'death' of gods, people, and all other life."
Ikari "Death gives birth to nothing."
Keel "Then death is what we shall give you."

Fuyutsuki (behind) "People exist because they have the will to live."
Fuyutsuki (behind) "And that is the reason she chose to remain within Eva."
We later hear a line similar to Kozo's "Humanity has existed in order to create Eva", in the "Void in the Dream" scene, once again from him: "Humanity creates Eva in the likeness of a god….That's our true purpose, isn't it?" The two scenes are clearly being linked in some way. The creation of "Eva" being humanity's "true purpose" makes perfect sense from a Human Lifecycle point of view. She's humanity's answer to Adam and Lilith, i.e., a Seed of Life who can live forever and carry on the lineage somewhere else (but possibly in another form). It's similar to how the "true purpose" of a lifeform is to propagate itself, but, instead, an entire species' purpose is rendered the creation of a single lifeform (the Seed) capable of initiating a new human race.

One thing that doesn't seem to have been quite adequately addressed is this "Ark" business. Why bother mentioning it if it wasn't important in some way...? (Potentially, a very big way.)

This seems to fit with Reichu's notion (as regards Kyoko/Asuka) of the mother within the EVA "puppeting" the pilot, to achieve her own ends...



Well, I don't actually believe a lot of the crap I said in that Yui/Kyoko thread anymore. Although the "bridge" stuff still holds up for me -- with Asuka largely acting as a "deeply immersed spectator" while Mama protects her. Yui is the bousou master, so she doesn't need Shinji as a bridge or anything; though he is, too, acting as a D.I.S.

Both kids being essentially deprived of any true piloting in EoE -- before being deprived of their mothers altogether -- would actually make a good deal of thematic sense, too. (More of that "needing to become independent of your mother" stuff.)

But anyway. I still have no solid idea of how Shinji fits into all of this, so I'll just shut up. Image

Originally posted on: 24-Mar-2006, 13:32 GMT

LuigiHann [ANF]
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Postby LuigiHann [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:41 pm

Actually, with regards to the "Ark" theory... Perhaps Gendo's plan (but not Yui's, apparently, as it didn't happen) was to take all the souls (or all the "good" ones, anyway) with them on the Eva, to the new world.
On the other hand, Kozo's line as Eva becomes the Tree of Life (God, even when you think it's starting to make sense, it's still f'ed up) is along the lines of "Will it be an Ark to save Mankind from the vacuum of Third Impact? Or is it a demon that will destroy us all? The fate of Mankind now lies in Shinji's hands..."
This doesn't seem to leave room for any third option, but it does suggest that Shinji is the one making the decision of what happens to mankind, even if the rest of Yui's plan is totally out of his control.

Originally posted on: 24-Mar-2006, 14:18 GMT

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Postby thewayneiac [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:41 pm

The problem with interpreting ths "Ark" business as meaning that a bunch of souls went along with Yui is that you don't use an ark to go anywhere. An ark is a temporary refuge wherein you ride out a storm, emerging as soon as it is safe. Yes, Noah and his family are said to have started the human race over again, but not in a new world. The people who did not board Noah's Ark did not emerge from the flood waters, scratch their heads and say "What was that?!" and go about their business; they were dead. Until someone finds a way to explain away Yui's closing remarks, which clearly indicate she is going alone, I won't believe that anyone went along with her, even Gendo.

Originally posted on: 24-Mar-2006, 15:22 GMT

sheaman [ANF]
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Postby sheaman [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:41 pm

but if an ark is made as a temporary shelter, it's possible that gendo wanted to stay where nerv was and come back with yui or something. but that's probably not right, seeing as he says "take me to where yui is".

Originally posted on: 24-Mar-2006, 15:32 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:41 pm

thewayneiac wrote:The problem with interpreting ths "Ark" business as meaning that a bunch of souls went along with Yui is that you don't use an ark to go anywhere.



Eva is no more a real "ark" than any other religious reference in the show is that religious reference. They're loose correlates and they don't have to line up exactly.

EDIT: And how the heck is "ark" being used in the show, anyway? A rather straight (and ugly) reading of what Fuyutsuki says: "And now, she is restoring/reducing (implied object)* into the Tree of Life, the embryo of lives. Will she become the Ark that saves people from the nothingness of Third Impact, or will she become the demon that destroys people?"

I'd say you could probably take that more than one way...

* Well, it doesn't LOOK like a passive verb, anyway. (The "EVA-01 is being restored into..." variation.) I'll have to look into this.

Until someone finds a way to explain away Yui's closing remarks, which clearly indicate she is going alone, I won't believe that anyone went along with her, even Gendo.



You don't have to "explain away" anything, simply look at her lines from "another point of view". A lot of the stuff in the show makes no sense and seems self-contradicting -- until you figure out the cipher.

While Gendo's fate plays out in a pretty f*cked-up way, the results seem to be fairly unambiguous. I still have some crap to process for that, though. Image_

LuigiHann wrote:Actually, with regards to the "Ark" theory... Perhaps Gendo's plan (but not Yui's, apparently, as it didn't happen) was to take all the souls (or all the "good" ones, anyway) with them on the Eva, to the new world.



Very warm!

But, actually, I wouldn't say that it didn't happen... For one thing: Doesn't the path of souls split at one point?

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y2...6_C373_comp.jpg

Image

Some are going into the top of the Black Moon, and others are heading into the Doors of Guf on Shekinah's palms. Ooooo, mysteries...

Originally posted on: 24-Mar-2006, 16:13 GMT

sheaman [ANF]
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Postby sheaman [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:41 pm

but you never know what happens to them...

Originally posted on: 24-Mar-2006, 16:23 GMT


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