Behavioral logic of LCL

Dr. Nick [ANF] · Postby **Dr. Nick [ANF]** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:13 pm

Okay, somebody here is confused, and that's not me. I'm talking about the LCL-transformation, and you Rah are rambling about something completely else.

1. Eva-01 rips a Rib out of Sachiel and proceeds to Ram it into Sachiels Core.
2. Eva-01 Regrows it's arm.
3. Eva-01 Neutralizes an AT-field...

Rah, you're completely right here, Yui is in control during this sequence and nobody else. I have never claimed otherwise. I don't deny the fact that during many different situations the Eva is powered by some mysterious soul power which most likeyly isn't scientifically explained. But that's not the issue here; I am merely talking about the LCL-transformation. I claim that this transformation can be technically explained and that it doesn't require the participation of the Eva's resident soul, nothing more.

You have offered your own theory about this, saying that the transformation is caused by soul magic alone, thus equating it with berserk incidents where only the Eva is in charge. And I have pointed several massive flaws in your theory. I am not a guru or even an "Eva scholar" but compared to your theory mine is "simple and elegant", IMHO.

In my previous post I mentioned the berserk-incident from episode #02, but only to point out that your previous answer is incorrect:

- I ask you to explain why the bridge crew doesn't scream and shout when the LCL-transformation happens.
- Your explanation is that they don't do that because the Eva is connected to a power supply. So, according to your thinking, if the Eva does something on her own but there's a power supply present the bridge crew shouldn't go apesh*t.
- I present an example which proves your notion wrong: When Eva-01 goes berserk in ep. #02 the power supply is connected, but the bridge crew still gasps and shouts. I'm not questioning the nature of the berserk incidents, I only shot down your incorrect explanation to my question.

Now stop asking me stupid questions like "explain technically how Shinji knew how to regrow his arm (LOL) and neutralize At-fields" and stick to the point of our discussion. On these previous pages I have presented a theory about the LCL-transformation which I consider to be quite simple and elegant at least compared to your theory, which is largely based on the notion that Yui wanted to boil Shinji in episode #06. So tell me, why do you prefer soul magic over technical explanation here, even though the Program Book flat out says: "After the pilot is on-board, this L.C.L is electrically charged to alter its molecular arrangement". And I say it yet again, leave the berserk incidents and other unrelated crap like that out of this.

Originally posted on: 01-Jul-2004, 07:40 GMT

RahOtaku [ANF] · Postby **RahOtaku [ANF]** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:13 pm

You have offered your own theory about this, saying that the transformation is caused by soul magic alone,-nick-

That's not my aim. I said it's not done by electricity alone.

Never said it didn't involve electrical charge.

What kind of physics have you had? Every particle on this world is charged. If I touch you, the electrical charge of each molecule I touch changes.

I don't oppose the Death and Rebirth book. And it's not your theory, It was printed almost a decade ago.

- I ask you to explain why the bridge crew doesn't scream and shout when the LCL-transformation happens.
- Your explanation is that they don't do that because the Eva is connected to a power supply. So, according to your thinking, if the Eva does something on her own but there's a power supply present the bridge crew shouldn't go apesh*t.
- I present an example which proves your notion wrong: When Eva-01 goes berserk in ep. #02 the power supply is connected, but the bridge crew still gasps and shouts. I'm not questioning the nature of the berserk incidents, I only shot down your incorrect explanation to my question.-nick-

Shot me down?

The bridge crew was going crazy because a 14 year old learned how to neutralize an AT-field, Regrow its arm and KILL AN ANGEL in 3 minutes, (after falling on its own face just a minute ago?)

Not because of the LCL.

If you still don't understand, I can't explain it any better.

Yui wanted to boil Shinji in episode #06-nick-

I never said that either. What ever it is, Yui is in charge. You can not deny that. The electricity can not explain anything. I've had more than enough circuitry training and robotics to prove any of your notions wrong.

You keep putting words in my mouth. But I don't mind at all.

Originally posted on: 01-Jul-2004, 17:33 GMT

Dr. Nick [ANF] · Postby **Dr. Nick [ANF]** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:13 pm

That's not my aim. I said it's not done by electricity alone.

Thanks for clearing that out.

The bridge crew was going crazy because a 14 year old learned how to neutralize an AT-field, Regrow its arm and KILL AN ANGEL in 3 minutes, (after falling on its own face just a minute ago?) Not because of the LCL.

I have never claimed that they were screaming and shouting in that scene because of the LCL. Once again, you're on a side track here. Here's an even more simplified version of what I said in my previous post:

- I ask you to explain why the brigde crew doesn't go apesh*t when the LCL transformation happens.
- You say it's because there's a power supply present.
- I prove your notion wrong by using the berserk incident as an example: the bridge crew goes apesh*t even though there is a power supply present.

I hope you understand my point now.

I never said that either.

You have implied that Yui had some shady motives to do so.

I've had more than enough circuitry training and robotics to prove any of your notions wrong.

*sigh* How many times do I have to explain this to you? You cannot apply real life science to an anime show.

Originally posted on: 01-Jul-2004, 18:13 GMT

RahOtaku [ANF] · Postby **RahOtaku [ANF]** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:13 pm

I can tell you that oranges are orange in Real Science. But then you'll argue that in anime Oranges are blue. Since

You cannot apply real life science to an anime show.-nick the fake science guy-

Congratulations, You've won the arguement! (Oranges are blue)

This conversation is done. Your using make-believe electricity. Which is laughable, at best.

Originally posted on: 01-Jul-2004, 18:58 GMT

Dr. Nick [ANF] · Postby **Dr. Nick [ANF]** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:13 pm

If an anime series features blue oranges, then blue oranges do exist in the realm of that specific anime series. In other words, oranges can be blue.

But I can end this discussion anytime you want - I don't want to prevent a guy from ejecting when his arguments are going down in flames.

I must say this discussion with you, Rah, has filled me with precious memories. At times I could have sweared my adversary was Fuzzy the Great himself. I tip my bonnet to you, sir!

*Is finished with this thread*

Originally posted on: 01-Jul-2004, 21:28 GMT

RahOtaku [ANF] · Postby **RahOtaku [ANF]** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:13 pm

- I ask you to explain why the brigde crew doesn't go apesh*t when the LCL transformation happens.
- You say it's because there's a power supply present.
- I prove your notion wrong by using the berserk incident as an example: the bridge crew goes apesh*t even though there is a power supply present.
-Nick the fake science guy-

They were in shock of what Shinji was doing.
That's why I went into so much detail trying to explain that Shinji was causing the Shock.
They were Not in shock of the power supply.

You have implied that Yui had some shady motives to do so.-nick the implier-

I implied? nothing. If I implied that, provide proof.

Originally posted on: 01-Jul-2004, 23:21 GMT

Keisuke-kun [ANF] · Postby **Keisuke-kun [ANF]** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:13 pm

Jesus christ.

The concept of using electricity to change the LCL is not laughable. Almost everything is done by an electrical charge in human beings and we know that the Eva's are almost identicla to humans anatomy wise. Nerve cells send commands via electrical charge. The LCL transformation can be be controled by this. Since the Nerv computer have limited control over the Eva it can maybe control some of the the Nerve cells Eva basically giving it almost complete control over some function. The rest of the functions like movement can be taken by a dummy plug.

Have you ever here of a person electrifing themselves when they thought about moving their arm while taking a bath or touched water after rubbing their hair?

Originally posted on: 02-Jul-2004, 02:56 GMT

Dr. Nick [ANF] · Postby **Dr. Nick [ANF]** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:13 pm

Rah, what are you still doing here? I thought our conversation was over. But no problem, I can continue since I'm powered by Duracell%?2.

They were Not in shock of the power supply.

I have never claimed that. I used that situation merely as an example to prove that your LCL-related power supply explanation is incorrect. I think I've said this like five times already.

This is your original quote:

The reason they aren't screaming is because there is a power supply at that time.

And then I proved your notion to be incorrect, like this:

That doesn't really work: There's a power supply when Eva-01 goes berserk in ep. #02, and the bridge crew still goes apesh*t.

What is it that you don't understand here?

I implied? nothing. If I implied that, provide proof.

Ask and thou shalt receive. This is where you imply that Yui had some shady motives to boil Shinji:

You have to ask Yui, she'll tell you. I don't know what she's thinking, but I'm sure she knows what's best for her son.

Originally posted on: 02-Jul-2004, 07:59 GMT

Reichu [ANF] · Postby **Reichu [ANF]** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:13 pm

Sweet jebus, this is like reading those threads where Sharp-kun attempted to reason with that 'Cute Anime Girl'. It's like having a debate with a ball of lead, IMHO. In other words, a complete waste of time and energy. Mere scum or not, your talents need not be wasted on Rah's brand of self-proclaimed "Eva Scholar".

But on-topic, some of the supplemental dialogue added to the Renewal versions of #01 and #02 might give us some extra clues about the technical aspects of LCL. I'll have to do some crap-translations of those before you leave, Niko.

Originally posted on: 02-Jul-2004, 11:56 GMT

Keisuke-kun [ANF] · Postby **Keisuke-kun [ANF]** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:13 pm

Reichu wrote:Sweet jebus, this is like reading those threads where Sharp-kun attempted to reason with that 'Cute Anime Girl'. It's like having a debate with a ball of lead, IMHO. In other words, a complete waste of time and energy. Mere scum or not, your talents need not be wasted on Rah's brand of self-proclaimed "Eva Scholar".

Tell me about it...

Originally posted on: 02-Jul-2004, 13:08 GMT

Dr. Nick [ANF] · Postby **Dr. Nick [ANF]** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:13 pm

But on-topic, some of the supplemental dialogue added to the Renewal versions of #01 and #02 might give us some extra clues about the technical aspects of LCL. I'll have to do some crap-translations of those before you leave, Niko.

Come on Reichu, this is pretty fun in its own retarted way (or maybe I'm a masochist). But translations would be welcome, I'd like too see if they reveal something new about this subject.

Originally posted on: 02-Jul-2004, 17:14 GMT

RahOtaku [ANF] · Postby **RahOtaku [ANF]** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:14 pm

The bridge crew went Crazy NOT DURING BUT AFTER the LCL turned to Gas.

and there is a million other reasons that the bridge crew could go crazy with.

Originally posted on: 03-Jul-2004, 01:12 GMT

Reichu [ANF] · Postby **Reichu [ANF]** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:14 pm

Well, in my current half-asleep state, I managed to translate a little of the supplemental dialogue from episode #02. Apparently something happens to the LCL before and after Yui goes bousou on Sachi's scrawny green arse. When the bridge crew is starting to freak out (all of their Eva and pilot-related technology is failing, and such):

Woman "The LCL's electric charge is in extreme decline! We can't maintain its present condition!"
Man "The psycho graph has disconnected! Present depth is unknown!" [I thought 'depth' referred to the plug, not the psycho graph...]

Later, when Sho's systems start coming back online:

Woman "LCL electrification ratio, restored to its normal value."
Man "LCL pressure, restored to its normal value."
Woman "LCL concentration, restored to its normal value."
Man "Plug depth, restored to its normal value."

There's a little techno-geek talk added to #01; I'll try to post that tomorrow.

Originally posted on: 03-Jul-2004, 03:31 GMT

Dr. Nick [ANF] · Postby **Dr. Nick [ANF]** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:14 pm

The bridge crew went Crazy NOT DURING BUT AFTER the LCL turned to Gas.

and there is a million other reasons that the bridge crew could go crazy with.

Exactly. You're completely right about this. They're screaming because the Eva goes berserk, not because of the LCL. I have never claimed otherwise.

Let's see if you understand my argument if I present it like this:

Whenever an Eva does something on her own accord, in other words when the resident soul of the Eva manifests her own free will, the bridge crew goes ape. The bridge crew never goes ape when the LCL-transformation happens. Therefore it is my conclusion that the LCL-transformation is not caused by Eva's soul.

And that techical babble posted by Reichu pretty much proves that it is not Yui who causes the electrical charge. When Yui takes the control, the electrical charge starts disappearing; when she stops berserking and goes back to "inactive state" the charge is restored.

Originally posted on: 03-Jul-2004, 07:48 GMT

RahOtaku [ANF] · Postby **RahOtaku [ANF]** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:14 pm

Exactly. You're completely right about this. They're screaming because the Eva goes berserk, not because of the LCL. I have never claimed otherwise. -Dr. Nick (post #134)-

- I ask you to explain why the bridge crew doesn't scream and shout when the LCL-transformation happens.
-Dr. Nick (post #121)-

- I ask you to explain why the brigde crew doesn't go apesh*t when the LCL transformation happens.
- You say it's because there's a power supply present.
- I prove your notion wrong by using the berserk incident as an example: the bridge crew goes apesh*t even though there is a power supply present.
-Dr. Nick (post #123)-

Twice you've asked me to "explain why the bridge crew doesn't go apesh*t when the LCL transformation happens."

Now you say you've never claimed it was the LCL...

And you think you can just lie and think no one will notice?

All your posts are saved here. and on my harddisk. So if you try to slander me, you'll only be humiliated.

Originally posted on: 05-Jul-2004, 23:54 GMT

Keisuke-kun [ANF] · Postby **Keisuke-kun [ANF]** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:14 pm

Reichu wrote:Well, in my current half-asleep state, I managed to translate a little of the supplemental dialogue from episode #02. Apparently something happens to the LCL before and after Yui goes bousou on Sachi's scrawny green arse. When the bridge crew is starting to freak out (all of their Eva and pilot-related technology is failing, and such):

Woman "The LCL's electric charge is in extreme decline! We can't maintain its present condition!"
Man "The psycho graph has disconnected! Present depth is unknown!" [I thought 'depth' referred to the plug, not the psycho graph...]

Later, when Sho's systems start coming back online:

Woman "LCL electrification ratio, restored to its normal value."
Man "LCL pressure, restored to its normal value."
Woman "LCL concentration, restored to its normal value."
Man "Plug depth, restored to its normal value."

There's a little techno-geek talk added to #01; I'll try to post that tomorrow.

Rah did you even see this?

Originally posted on: 06-Jul-2004, 04:09 GMT

Behavioral logic of LCL

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