Seele08 wrote:If it were in the black moon, than that means the entire cast was in the room the whole time.

Why do you say that? Guf = the source of souls. Meaning, the souls leave and go elsewhere. Return to the beginning = return to the source. Make sense, right?

Unless I'm misinterpreting what you mean by "the whole time".

Since the souls were drawn into Lilith first

Well, we see some of the red dots being channeled into the top of the Black Moon (in a helix) and the others going into the two vulval stigmata on her palms:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y2...6_C373_comp.jpg



It's been speculated that the souls going back into GNR are nothing more than Rei/Lilith's own soul, which manifested countless times simultaneously -- an ability that has come to be known 'round these parts as "Quantum Magic" -- to serve as the "Transition Guides". I guess they had to "escort" everyone's soul back to its source -- except Gendo's, since he, apparently, got a special escort (you know, being the husband of a god and all). I'm not sure why, but these multiple manifestations of Rei seem to still be around even after they return to GNR, "swimming around" inside her.





I woulda figured they'd just be able to "solidify" back into one soul, or something... I dunno if they have something to do with what we see when GNR starts to break apart.





Only the neck. Nothing from the arm, or anything else. This appears to have been a late addition to the movie -- no mention in the econte (storyboards) or Renewal script. Interestingly enough, the souls going into the stigmata seem to have been, as well -- both econte and early stage groundwork (for lack of a better word), they stigmata are just there, doing absolutely nothing aside from looking vulvic. Perhaps there is a connection.

Maybe ol' Shin-seiki has something further to offer here, since I don't.

Originally posted on: 15-Jan-2006, 18:43 GMT

At any rate, the vast majority of little red dots are associated with the Moon, which Yui most graciously bursts open for everybody. With blood. Or stuff that looks like it, anyway. (I don't think we ever DID figure out just WTF that stuff is. Just glancing at the Japanese, all I can make out is "is the color of blood", not "is blood". I gots me some transration to do...) You just can't trash a big, dark sphere without lots of blood. Can we, kids?











Anyway, my brain hurts. I'm going to go type up kanji. Or work on poor Niko-kun's e-mail. Or both at once. I'm not sure yet.

Originally posted on: 15-Jan-2006, 18:44 GMT

Some fscked-up news for you all. I found out what the Door of Guf is, at least in EoE.

It's a "euphemism" for these:





Meaning... Just what the hell is going on!??!

It seems that I have to rethink a lot of things. It will be very lonely. But at long as at least one person tries...

...

GOD, NO, PEOPLE, PLEASE HELP ME! REICHU CAN'T DO THIS BY HERSELF!

Originally posted on: 16-Jan-2006, 08:05 GMT

Reichu wrote:Well, we see some of the red dots being channeled into the top of the Black Moon (in a helix) and the others going into the two vulval stigmata on her palms:

We can postulate, given the later shot, that the flows into the stigmata are in fact the Rei's. What about the other flow? We'll the whole point of complementation was to gather all souls into the Black Moon, so this flow is likely the souls on their way to their final destination.

Consider this. The Reis spread out over the globe, tangify, and ferry the released soul back to the Black Moon, and once it is depositied, return to GNR.

I've mentioned this before, but there is a passing resemblence between the Reis and spermatoza. Perhaps this hints at what is going on here. The Rei's have gone out, gotten the souls, brought it back, and have perhaps been "fertilised" by the process?

But regardless, at a fundamental level, we appear to be witnessing two processes going on here, perhaps indicating that several different events or plans are in motion; Events which we throw under the umbrealla label Third Impact. But perhaps now we should say that; instrumentality, complementation, third impact, tangification , etc are all seperate terms referring to seperate concepts and/or events.

Edit:
I think that if the Chamber of Guf is in fact a "place", then it is either in GNR or the balck moon, or possibly both. However, I don't think it's localised to the stigmata genitalia, though perhaps you could refer to them as the "doors", if the chamber was within GNR/Lilith itself.

Originally posted on: 16-Jan-2006, 08:22 GMT

So where is the border between instrumentality, and complementation?

Originally posted on: 16-Jan-2006, 08:25 GMT

Instrumentality and complementation are the same thing.

OMF wrote:We can postulate, given the later shot, that the flows into the stigmata are in fact the Rei's. What about the other flow? We'll the whole point of complementation was to gather all souls into the Black Moon, so this flow is likely the souls on their way to their final destination.

Isn't that basically what I said? :p

I've mentioned this before, but there is a passing resemblence between the Reis and spermatoza. Perhaps this hints at what is going on here. The Rei's have gone out, gotten the souls, brought it back, and have perhaps been "fertilised" by the process?

Aside from the fact that they are pale (which Rei is anyway) and are swimming around in a group, they don't seem very sperm-like to me... If the script made a comment like seishi no you ni ("like sperm"), then I'd give it to you, but I'm noncommittal on this one. I'll let the Rei just be a cigar for now.

But regardless, at a fundamental level, we appear to be witnessing two processes going on here, perhaps indicating that several different events or plans are in motion; Events which we throw under the umbrealla label Third Impact. But perhaps now we should say that; instrumentality, complementation, third impact, tangification , etc are all seperate terms referring to seperate concepts and/or events.

Tangification = freeing the souls
Instrumentality/Complementation = synonymous = restoring souls to original state as one

I think that if the Chamber of Guf is in fact a "place", then it is either in GNR or the balck moon, or possibly both. However, I don't think it's localised to the stigmata genitalia, though perhaps you could refer to them as the "doors", if the chamber was within GNR/Lilith itself.

Well, if the stigmata are on her palms, and the script specifically calls them the "Door of Guf", then unless, they're teleporters, they're doors to her body. A door leads to a room. Door of Guf. Chamber of Guf. Ergo, whoever has said that Lilith's body is the Guf, or at least contains it, is correct.

What isn't clear to me is why the souls are returning to the Black Moon, if the Chamber is inside LILITH... And aside from receiving the billions of incarnations of herself, what is the significance of the doors opening right before Tangification begins, and then closing right after Yui escapes through GNR's eye?

While we can't know whether or not manual genitals are involved, it's possible that, once Adam wakes up, she releases the Apostle's souls from the Guf within herself.

Originally posted on: 16-Jan-2006, 08:38 GMT

From over here. Gee, I like doing this.

Soluzar wrote:...does anyone care to speculate as to what form Keel would be reconstituted in, should he choose to return after 3I? His "original" form is rather different from his more recent guise as Robo-Illuminatus.

Seele08 wrote:Since Asuka came back injured with her clothes on, Shinji returned with his clothes on, I would assume (and hope) he would return as a cyborg, he'd probably just reform out of the same LCL and robotic parts he came from. It seems whatever physical traits you had, and physical objects on, in, or near you come with you. Besides those robot parts are him, he'd have to imagine himself the way he was otherwise he wouldn't be Keel. Besides cyborgs are teh coolest.

Asuka actually wasn't injured. She just had bandages representing the two wounds she suffered before she was good and dead (and thus wouldn't remember any others, I'm guessing). Not sure about the reasons for this, but that's why this thread exists.

NGE established the (IMO still somewhat unfathomable) premise of one's Image forming objects that are technically not part of your physical body, but part of how you see yourself, from LCL, in #20. (I'm going to look into the logistics of this anew at some point, and the bit of wisdom about how a certain line in #20 is a mistake cover-up. I'm not committal at the moment.) Rei/Lilith and the others babble about image while HIP ends, and there is similar gibbergabber in #26, so take a look at all that sometime and how it might fit into things.

How Keel decides to return depends entirely upon, I'm guessing, how he sees himself if/when he makes his choice. We don't know enough about him to know how much he might have been resigned to the fate of his own physical destruction before the one he actually wanted, so this is just one of those absolute unknowns.

Originally posted on: 25-Jan-2006, 05:19 GMT

I think it would be more fun if he returned as a cyborg, all humans and no Rei and Kaworu would get boring. Maybe he's the reason cyborgs lost their human rights? I guess Shinji and Asuka could use him for something...just be a pain in the neck when he needs repair.

Originally posted on: 25-Jan-2006, 05:25 GMT

Okay, this thread was getting off-topic as hell, so... Let's try this again!

Ornette wrote:Is there a difference between an empty eva sucking a soul into it and an eva that has a soul, sucking in another? I was wondering if the fact that Yui-is-Eva was the cause of Shinji getting sucked in or if it was just the nature of the eva that does this (as with the prior case of the meat sack sucking in a Yui red dot). Maybe I'm just missing something.

Reichu wrote:Are you referring to the fact that Shinji went ker-splooosh in the first place, or to what Mr. Tines mentioned above about the "core birth"?

Ornette wrote:I guess a better way to put it is: will anyone who achieves 400% sync get sucked into Eva (Ritsuko: "This is the true nature of 400% synchronization.") and that it's just the nature of Eva in general, or if it is because it is specifically Shinji and Yui.

Shinji actually doesn't get sucked in. He just goes "ker-sploosh" in the entry plug; they tell you in #20 that he's floating around in the plug in quantum form (quantum... souls... quantum...) or some such thing. He goes into the core after the plug opens up for some mysterious reason (yeah, I don't have a very firm grasp on this episode ), and Yui's all like, "Okay, enough is enough, Son. That's enough destrudo for one month. Here's some LCL, now get out there and become a legend! You're making that poor woman cry again!" :squirt:

I'm totally unresolved as to where EVA-01 fits into the mess and how a 400% synch ratio can occur in the first place. I mean... 400%? I don't know my maths, but what is that supposed to mean? And even though Shinji's entry plug wasn't making true contact with the Eva during the salvage operation, they were still connecting the two with all sorts of cords. And there are various other weird thingamajigs involved, like these "bits" on either side of Yui's mouth and that circular device around the plug itself.

Blurgh. It'll probably make sense eventually, but not without taking everything else about synchronization, harmonics, destrudo, blah blah blah, in the show into account. They've added lots of nifty details about that stuff to Renewal, so hopefully things will be clarified even further.

Originally posted on: 13-Feb-2006, 19:40 GMT

Thanks, that makes more sense

Originally posted on: 14-Feb-2006, 08:15 GMT

Ornette wrote:Thanks, that makes more sense

Except for the parts that still don't.

:shakes fist at Anno:

Go nag your buddy, too.

Originally posted on: 14-Feb-2006, 08:16 GMT