Commentary: Episode #02

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Postby OMF [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:46 pm

Reichu wrote:Aside from his blood, since when was Sachiel blue?

That's what I meant. Maybe blue bloody remains would be better.

Reichu wrote:What specifically are you referring to?

Prude is a word I came across on answers.com, which happens to describe the conservative side of Shinji pretty well. Here's the excerpt.
Prude - One who is excessively concerned with being or appearing to be proper, modest, or righteous.
It also adds -prude has become a term of reproach
It's also got undertones of being old fashioned and socially conservative. Which Shinji is. You could throw up loads of example. His manners, formalities etc. Good examples include his reaction to Asuka's much more liberal behaviour. The thermal expansion problem she poses.
Shinji: Don't ask me, I've no idea!
Also his reaction to Asuka's reason for kissing.
Nothing to do, so, kiss? That's ...(inappropriate, not right, etc..) The actor really plays it spot on. The guy is living in the fifties. Eighteen fifties!
Maybe this is something for an appendix.

Reichu wrote:You don't think she drinks like a maniac when she only has a penguin for an audience?

I think it's the way she quaffs it. When she was on her own she probobly just sat there sullenly guzzling the stuff down, eventually getting drunk enough to fling a few bottles at the refridgerator where PenPen was cowering.! Image

Reichu wrote:What marks it as "immature" specifically?

Hmmm. I'm finding this one hard to articulate. Immature is the wrong word. Perhaps naive is better. I got to think about this one.

Reichu wrote:Exactly what is he glancing at, you think?

He's glancing, through the wall, at Misato. Am I the only other one who's done this in a strange house?

Reichu wrote:Believe...what?

Matrix reference. Pity Sachiel isn't wearing sunglasses. "Mr Ikari! We meet at last" Image


Reichu wrote:I think the evidence is against your idea here. The pulses flow BACKWARDS, the synchronization breaks down, the LCL electrification decreases, and the plug is apparently dispelled from the core. EVA-01 is rejecting the technology and taking control of herself; Shinji is just along for the ride.
His awareness of the incident was minimal at best, considering he was not even synchronized... He was basically sitting inside a dark entry plug the entire time.

But he seems to remember the whole fight. I was always under the impression, especially given his look in cut 256, that some deep primal rage had been invested in Shinji somehow during the fight. The synchrograph reversing might be an indication of the Eva forcing itself upon him, controling him rather than the other way around, instead of rejecting him. In the chaos of background comments I can pick out these few.
Man (OFF) "Cranial nerve connections, overloading beyond normal values!!"
Man (OFF) "Nerve graph is transgressing safe depths!"
Man (OFF) "Nerve graph is breaking into the danger zone! It has entered level 8!"
Man (OFF) "Mental graph interrupted! Present depth unknown!"
Which might support my interpretation. It's just a feeling I have.

Reichu wrote:Considering he wakes up in a hospital bed, "pass out" sounds about right.

I think Gendou would have gotten a few cheap laughs out of a beating though! Image

Originally posted on: 03-Apr-2005, 18:01 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:46 pm

I don't really think Shinji's prudish in the sense we know....he's, respectfull?(not alsways towards Misato, probably standing his grounf with his immature behavior shown from in episode 4) I always thought he was more "repressed". Of course, he may seem this way around Misato because he seeems less close to adults(and he doesn't want to get as "close" as Misato does like in, say, episode 23. Though, for a time, he was interested it seemed in Rei, but that was short-lived compared to how he felt towards Asuka. Image

Originally posted on: 03-Apr-2005, 18:08 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:46 pm

OMF wrote:Prude is a word I came across on answers.com...

Sorry, I meant why is it going to be "self-destructive" later?

But he seems to remember the whole fight. I was always under the impression, especially given his look in cut 256, that some deep primal rage had been invested in Shinji somehow during the fight. The synchrograph reversing might be an indication of the Eva forcing itself upon him, controling him rather than the other way around, instead of rejecting him. In the chaos of background comments I can pick out these few.
Man (OFF) "Cranial nerve connections, overloading beyond normal values!!"
Man (OFF) "Nerve graph is transgressing safe depths!"
Man (OFF) "Nerve graph is breaking into the danger zone! It has entered level 8!"
Man (OFF) "Mental graph interrupted! Present depth unknown!"
Which might support my interpretation. It's just a feeling I have.

...I'm still not seeing it. HOW Shinji becomes aware of it is an interesting question, but there is no question in my mind that he is not in control in any way, shape, or form. (I've already pointed out the technical reasons for why this is not possible.) This entire incident is a manifestation of Yui's will and her desire to protect Shinji (not to mention her own interests...), expressed through the Eva's innate primality. Fuyutsuki and Gendo aren't phased, of course, because they know what's really going on here.

(EDIT: And surely am I not the only one who thinks the above... Come on, my minions, throw me a bone here!)

Shinji's own capacity for violent rampages, on the other hand, turns up in episode #03. Suffice to say, there is a world of difference between Eva losing it and Shinji losing it...

Originally posted on: 03-Apr-2005, 18:21 GMT

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Postby OMF [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:46 pm

Reichu wrote:Sorry, I meant why is it going to be "self-destructive" later?

Whoops. Right. Well you can chalk it up as another negative aspect of his character that drags him down constantly. The best example is how this nature affects his relationship with Asuka. It's a constant source of friction between the two, almost the primary one. He regards all sexual feelings for Asuka as inappropriate, leading both to his own misery, and of course Asuka's eventual frustration. The kitchen scene cuts in 26' say it all. The red shots of Asuka's femine features interspaced with blue cuts of an utterly miserable Shinji really say it all. He doesn't want to think about such things but he can't help it, which only adds to his self loathing. And the fact that he doesn't want to only enrages Asuka. This is the gold example, but there are other, less dramatic ones. His use of decorum as a shield for one, and naturally his complete unwillingness to express his feelings on just about anything

Reichu wrote:...I'm still not seeing it. HOW Shinji becomes aware of it is an interesting question, but there is no question in my mind that he is not in control in any way, shape, or form. (I've already pointed out the technical reasons for why this is not possible.) This entire incident is a manifestation of Yui's will and her desire to protect Shinji (not to mention her own interests...), expressed through the Eva's innate primality. Fuyutsuki and Gendo aren't phased, of course, because they know what's really going on here.

Well, the only other example I can think of that may persuade you is in episode 19 when Eva goes loco for the final time. This incident was in fact due to a higher synch ratio. I just don't think that Shinji being completely cut off from the battle fits quite right. I think he was there, "feeling" the fury, if not quite in control of it.
He has this darker side too. As you say we sort of see in episode 3. There's a much better one in episode 19. Shinji grinning madly as he's tearing out the angel's core(Can I get a screenshot?). The best one though is his, briefly glimpsed(Screenshot needed), grin as he strangles Asuka in 26' right before complementation. But we know he a moral person, so he must be very disgusted and afraid of this side of himself. Shinji has a violent side, and I think he expierienced it during this scene.

Originally posted on: 03-Apr-2005, 19:20 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:46 pm

I don't think the nature of the "400% synch ratio" is really understood... I think that has more to do with the effect Shinji suffered (i.e., going splat). How can there be any question at all who is in control in episode #19? I had thought that the fact of Yui being the source of control during these "berserk" incidents was undisputed. If this is really contestable to you, perhaps a more formal debate would be in order. (I.e., new thread.) I don't like being an "idea dictator" in the commentary, but alternate lines of thought are best included once they have been properly debated, IMO...

Originally posted on: 03-Apr-2005, 19:49 GMT

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Postby OMF [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:47 pm

Edited comment, following a rather productive discussion in a spin off thread. On reading my original post, I realise it gives the impression of Shinji going Bousou as well, but I think the interpretation of him simply expieriencing the Eva going Bousou is a better one.


318: I'd suggest that Shinji was in fact conscious during the entire incident. It may well be that he was coalesced with Eva at the time, and was an unwilling spectator during the brutal dismemberment of Sachiel. The shot in 256 always gave me the feeling of paralysed alertness. I was always under the impression that Shinji had entered into a kind of trance, but not a stupor, in which the Eva was acting of its own volition through him, not without him, while Shinji was held transfixed, catatonic, and aware, "feeling the fury", but not actually in control of the proceedings. The pilot expieriences what the Eva does, the only difference here from regular operation is that the Eva, not the pilot, is the one in control. But by the nature of the symbiosis, the pilot is nessesarily along for the ride as well.The raw savagery of the Eva while Bousou, terrifying for a passive person like Shinji, might well account for his later trauma and perhaps shame. Sort of a "what am I becoming" feeling, which could go a ways to explaining his continued reluctance and fear in piloting Eva.

(EDIT)
This is looking rather long. Maybe it would be better to move it if it takes up too much space. Maybe 319, 321 or 327. I'm not sure though?

Originally posted on: 04-Apr-2005, 22:58 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:47 pm

Transferred to the Commentary forums.

Originally posted on: 15-Jul-2005, 17:00 GMT


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